Councillor Alby Walker speaks about NSREC Exclusive!

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In re-action to the news of NSREC calling in the administrators, Stoke BNP leader, Alby Walker speaks exclusively to Pitsnpots.
albyCouncillor Walker said he called for an audit of the REC’s accounts by the City Council. He added that the absence of a Service Level agreement has cast doubts on the REC’ financial dealings and he is demanding to know what the money given by Stoke on Trent city council has been used for.

On the question of the work carried out by the REC he said that he is against any promotion of one facet of the community over another and that the organisation should have been named the Race Inequality Council. He suggested that the REC had been guilty of letting third parties like Unite Against Fascism, and the North Staffordshire Campaign Against Racism and Fascism, use their building free of charge to defeat the BNP.

In response to the proposed conference to debate the rise in popularity of the BNP,  Alby Walker said that the BNP actively fight racism and are not in support of white supremacy. He  said that the reason that the BNP was getting more popular was that people liked what his party had to say.

When I put it to him that surely the work that the REC in relation to cohesion and integration he said, the Asian communities must not live separatist lives and must want to truly integrate into our society.

Mr Walker also revealed that the BNP would field a candidate in the upcoming Newcastle under lyme by-election in the Ravenscliffe ward. He said that the only reason UKIP were doing well in the Borough, was that the BNP had not been there, until now.

He denied that there had been any deal with UKIP to stay out of Newcastle under lyme and said that his party was confident that they could win the seat.

Have Your Say

  • Shaun Bennett

    I agree with you on the race equality council. I for one can’t pretend to be too unhappy that it has had to call in the administrators. With any luck the same will happen wherever they are found.

    On the matter of UKIP in Newcastle, I couldn’t disagree more. Some of these voters may be people that would otherwise vote BNP, but the reason UKIP has done so well (in Labour wards by the way, not Tory ones) is because of hard work and local campaiging by committed people. They have attracted disillusioned Labour voters and also Tories who vote tactically thinking (and in places like Cross Heath and Silverdale, perhaps rightly) that their preferred party doesn’t stand a chance.

    But lets just take a moment to have a look behind the BNP logic for contesting wards in Newcastle. They say, UKIP have only done well because the BNP haven’t stood before. So following that line of thinking, you expect UKIP to do worse once the BNP stand. So following that thinking through to its natural conclusion, you are saying that you are going to make it EASIER for Labour and the Lib Dems to win!

    I don’t really care whether a deal was done to keep the BNP out of Newcastle or not. What I can’t understand is why the BNP are proposing to help put Labour back into power-at least in the short term-by splitting the anti-Labour vote further???

  • brooneyes

    A little bird told me that the building that housed the REC had only just undergone a full refit. Seems like a very ‘fortunate’ circumstance for the landlord. Anyone know who that might be?

  • Mark Machin

    Blimey, it’s one By-Election Shaun. The real question is: are you worried that a BNP candidate might split the tory vote in Ravenscliffe and make it easier for the Lib Dems to win?

    Given the sort of voter attitudes in the Kidsgrove-Talke area I expect the council seat to go either Tory or Lib Dem, Labour might have been the traditional ‘owners’ but they are in decline.

    As for ‘putting labour back into power’, one By-Election is not going to replace the current Lib-Tory administration with a Labour one. Even if the BNP started campaigning across Newcastle in earnest, surely this wouldn’t affect true blue tories? would it?

  • Mark Machin

    [i]brooneyes said on Feb 2nd, 2009 at 5:14 pm:

    A little bird told me that the building that housed the REC had only just undergone a full refit. Seems like a very ‘fortunate’ circumstance for the landlord. Anyone know who that might be?[/i]

    Unless it was the landlord who paid for the refit.

  • Shaun Bennett

    No of course the Conservative led coalition isn’t at risk from this by-election, whatever the result. And you may be right Mark that the BNP vote could well split the result in a way that would allow the Liberals in (again I ask is that what the BNP want???, the Lib Dems must be jumping for joy at the BNP decision to contest the ward).

    However, my comments were really directed at the next full council elections in Newcastle, in case the BNP were thinking of contesting those.

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    Mark …. dont….. Shaun is very touchy about it,,,, he may very well look like the fool he sounds with all the mouthing off about how solid a Tory seat it is,

    so solid that they dont even need to turn up to meetings on the council……. he he he!!! :-)

  • Shaun Bennett

    I’m not having another row with you about Ravenscliffe on here as well David, becuase you’re not willing to listen to my argument, and quite frankly you don’t have any answers when the facts are put to you.

    I have NEVER said that Ravenscliffe is a safe Tory ward (go back and check if you don’t believe me), and I wouldn’t be in the least bit surprised if the Liberals won it with their smear tactics and their nasty innuendo’s. I’m afriad that’s just the gutter level to which the liberals have fallen.

    Since you obviously don’t know very much about the constituency you are PPC for, let me give you some facts of life:

    1) Ravencsliffe was only created in 2002.
    2) The only ward in Kidsgrove that the Tories had ever won before winning Ravenscliffe a couple of years ago was Newchapel.
    3) When Ravenscliffe was first contested, the Tories came a poor third and no one in the party really thought that it was possible to win it.
    4) The Liberals have long held dominance in the Kidsgrove area as the main opposition to Labour (they have held Talke safely for years, Butt Lane has recently elected a liberal, Kidsgrove has long switched between liberal and Labour, Newchapel itself has only recently stopped voting liberal or Labour, and Ravenscliffe has only very recently started electing tories instead of liberals or labour).

    To anyone who understands anything about elections, Ravenscliffe is by no means easy to win. I hope that people will see through your nastyness, David, but I fear that it will be difficult for the truth to come through.

    Now that I have explained all this-and I should emphasise that I was talking in my first comment about the next FULL COUNCIL ELECTIONS, not this by election; perhaps we can get back to the purpose of this debate and to what Cllr Walker had to say!

  • terry turbo

    Rob Flello as gone into panic mode in the Sentinel, he can’t wait to waste the tax-payers money in setting up another REC.
    As this is the third one to go down with “administrive errors” how much of the tax-payers money will he be happy to waste next time?
    Race problems come from ghetto style segregation, and an unwillingness to talk, and no amount of money will solve these problems.
    Trevor Phillips states the British are the most tolerant race, so why do we need a REC that cannot even account for where the money has gone.
    Did it go to someones pocket, a third party, or was it just incompetance, we don’t know?
    How on earth did they aquire this money with no checks as to where it was being spent, or does this council, and Government just doll out our money to any crackpot scheme, as long as they claim it is for Racial Harmony?
    Division only comes when you treat one part of society different than another, and this Goverment, and the City Council is guilty of that charge.
    The only way to stop Racism is to talk and give and take on both sides, until this happens you will be saddled with a fractured society, and no amount of money will solve that problem.
    It will just create seperatism, jealousy, and dissent.
    Labour have created a split society, with its incessant drive to multiculturism, and diversity, favouring one part of society, against the other, creating an feeling of victimhood by branding anyone that was white of “institutional Racism”.
    I know it was McPhearson, but he worked for Labour indirectly.
    The media have played their part in this as well, with their biased reporting techniques.

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    Shaun, The Lib Dem vote is never threatened by the BNP vote as the people who vote BNP very rarely vote Lib Dem if no BNP candidate was stood. It is UKIP and Tory that predominately lose out to BNP as it is the ‘righter wing from middle’ of politics that attracts the BNP vote.

    More over these days, Nu Labour (or even Za Nu Labour) which has taken the Centre Right ground, also lose out to the BNP.

    Why?

    Has the nation become raving mad racists? Does every one suddenly want all none English people to suffer forced repatriation?

    No, and the BNP do not argue that on the main of their policies. What they do is fill the void where traditional so called mainstreams have completely lost touch with reality and the people who elect them, visa vie, Labour and Tory are out of touch and out of sync with the populous and thus smaller parties end up taking the slack. Many of the main stream politicians live in a bubble and cannot see outside of their own rose tinted spectacled vision of the world.

    What you are saying about the Kidsgrove area is true, they have returned almost all of the Town Council, where we hold 18 of the 24 seats, and now a significant part of Newcastle Borough, (which will be one seat stronger to us after this election) and that is because we are ‘doers’ not procrastinating Sayers like the previous incumbents. We attend our council meetings, we talk with local residents, we get bins emptied, we clean up dog shite off pavements, we unblock drains and all the other nitty gritty things that go to make for good local council, the things that many Tory and Labour councillors think is beneath them, because, like it or not that is what local council is all about….. cleaning up crap. Not changing the world, not bringing down the price of oil or saving the planet, not putting more police on the beat or changing the law, not pretending to be more important than the role needs or demands.

    If the BNP, and it’s a massive if (Sorry Cllr Walker) were to win the seat it would be more because of the failings of the main Tory and Labour Parties to make any attempt to connect with the electorate than a rejection of Liberal Democracy as we stand for.

  • Ladyofthelake

    Am I the only one who is seriously considering petitioning the Mods to fetch a playpen for David Jack and Shaun Bennett?

    I am sick of reading puerile petty points from the pair of them, who both appear to have little better to do with their time that regurgitate their various political mantras like a pair of parrots. Despite repeated protestations from them both about not replying to the other, they don’t seem able to help themseves, so please mods, could you help them for us, and silence them both for a week or two, so the grownups can debate and discuss serious issues?

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    Lady of the lake, i thought my reply above addressed many of the issues raised in this blog???

  • Daydream Believer

    Now this is more like it! Pitsnpots exclusive, I don’t know why you don’t go the whole hog and take on the Sentinel. The reporting is more balanced on here and much more comprehensive.

    Brooneyes,
    More crap, no substance from you, I don’t know why you don’t follow in the footsteps of your Hubby and bog off! You only come out with lies and fantasy posts anyway. Leave the BNP argument to Terry, Alby and Mike!

  • Nita

    LadyoftheLake, a playpen is now on order!!

    David Jack, you did address the issues in your reply.

    From my experience when attending events at the REC a couple of years ago, they did want to encourage communities to integrate more.

    It is a shame that the administrators have been called in, but it is understandable why councillors want to question how the REC has spent the money given to them by the council.

  • Mark Machin

    Oh somebody please!

    Create a Pits’n'Pots-West to cover Newcastle under Lyme and let the two of them post competiting Bi-election articles!

  • brooneyes

    Braindead believer.
    Have I done something to irritate you?
    Do tell so I can do more of it.
    I was told that REC paid for the refit. Now I don’t know if it’s true, but it is something the council should be taking a look at.
    I don’t know what kind of a sad and lonely person you are, but you need to work on your people skills, especially interaction! lol

  • Shaun Bennett

    Actually, Lady of the Lake, I was going to agree with David Jack on almost everything that he said. His reply was mostly thought provoking and largely correct in this case.

    I would also defend myself and say that I have not sought on this thread to get into the ins and outs of the Ravenscliffe by-election. My comments on the BNP standing in Newcastle were really focussed on the next full council elections. My Ravenscliffe points were more helpful than party political, and even David has agreed that they are essentially correct.

    I do feel that some people like Lady of the Lake may well read previous disputes between various contributors such as myself and David, and then think that it is safe to make comments about petty point scoring without actually reading what is being said. So again I will say, I do NOT take issue with a lot of what David has just written.

    My only points that I would like to make however is that whilst it is a nice hypothesis that the BNP don’t take votes away from the Lib Dems-and one that probably all of us would expect to be true-I’m not sure whether there is any psephological evidence there to support that argument.

    It is a fact that UKIP quite often take a large amount of their support from Lib Dem voters (just look at the south west and the wards that they win around the country). Often, UKIP take more votes from Labour and the Lib Dems than they do from the Tories. Having studied ward level results from accross the country I have found this almost always to be the case. Now some people try to argue that UKIP and the BNP are essentially fighting for the same types of voters; in which case the Lib Dems would indeed lose just as much support to the BNP as any other party.

    I don’t however agree with the statement that UKIP and the BNP are essentially the same or even similar. UKIP is still seen as a far more ‘respectable’ party by many voters that would usually vote for the mainstream parties than is the BNP. Meanwhile the BNP is mostly seen as a party with a sinister undertone by most of these mainstream voters. Therefore, I would tentatively agree with David that in theory, the Lib Dems should not be as affected by the BNP as they may be by UKIP. Nevertheless, this would require far more evidence before a definate principle could be stated. The problem with the BNP as opposed to UKIP is that they mostly only fight in Labour wards where other parties have traditionally been weak anyway, so there isn’t much evidence available.

    Finally, I must make one point on the by-election (sorry, but I’ll make it as painless as possible). I don’t think that the BNP will win Ravenscliffe in fact. But neither do I think the Lib Dems should be as cocky about it as David has been on a couple of occassions now.

    In comment 6, David accused me of asserting that Ravenscliffe is a solid Tory seat that we won’t lose. I have already laid out plenty of reasons why that is totally untrue and that I have never said it. Indeed, in comment 7 I set out a pretty detailed argument as to why no one should take it for granted.

    Unfortunately, David has now TWICE asserted that the Lib Dems WILL win it, “WHEN we win it” etc. Forgive me for suggesting but only one of us has ever expressed any complacency over the result of the by-election. And that is yet another reason why you do not deserve to win it.

    There you are, all off my chest now. Carry on.

  • http://tideswellman.blogspot.com/ Tideswellman

    I’m sick of the BNP being held up as legitimate. Does anyone really believe that anything they say is not motivated by a desire to create division. I’m off to prepare a counter article.

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    Shaun, ‘when’ is a word that can be a reflection of a persons perspective… it is not a definative period of time…

    But yes, when……

    Can i go to bed now safe in the knowledge that this debate about Ravenscliffe is now dead and buried and we can get on and solve the rest of the worlds ills???

    You can buy me a beer WHEN we have won the election anyway…:-)

  • Ladyofthelake

    Sadly Shaun Bennett you are correct. I skim your posts now, they are largely irrelevant to the blogs you post on. The fact that a certain bielection has now crept into several threads, despite not actually being blogged about, says it all. You even post yourself that you’re not going to mention it… and then do so several times in the last post. Need I say more?

    I don’t give a monkeys whether you and David Jack agree or not, the way the pair of you carry on, provoking each other even when you seemingly agree, hijacking threads with your personal feud and then trying to justify it as ‘interesting’ (only to you I’m afraid) brings this whole blog into disrepute.

    Nita, when’s the playpen due to arrive?

  • river

    i reply to tideswellman feb 2 you are right the bnp is a genuine political party and you right again the bnp as britains best interest at heart . the bnp is putting people first. that is why the bnp is getting stronger you state in reguard to bnp membership list. takeanother look from ordenary working people /to members of our armed forces /police officers /lawyers. ect / you are putting stigmer to your own contrymen .to the fact by there own choice are members of the british nation party. will you please read councillor alby walkers \exclusive about n.s.REC./ feb 2. I as a citizen born and bred/can se the truth when i see read it Ifail to understand why you cannot./as a citizen of our city Istandby councillor alby walker in demanding an investigation by the stoke on trent city council and the audit commission into where the council grant funding as gone IT maybe that the council grant funding as been diverted from the NSREC/ ACCOUNT to funding of building the regent road mosque hanley./

  • Shaun Bennett

    Unlike some, Lady of the Lake, I answer the questions that are asked and the points that are made to me. As I have said on several occasions now (and if you go back to my first comment you will see that I entirely stuck to reflections on what Cllr Walker said) my comments on elections was looking forward to if and when the BNP fight the next full council elections in Newcastle.

    Unfortunately, other people have been going on and onm about the Ravenscliffe ward, and I feel compelled out of politeness and a wish to set the record straight to respond to those points.

    No doubt in mentioning the ward name in response to you you will take this as confirmation that I am obsessed about this issue. But the fact remains that if you have half a brain to understand what I’ve been saying, you will see that Ibegan with relevance to the topic and then simply followed where others have taken the discussion.

    Now can we please get back to what Cllr Walker has said, for the THIRD time???

  • Shaun Bennett

    I have to say, I was surprised that no one has commented on my delight that the race equality council had gone into administration. Does this mean that we all agree that its either not important or is a good thing???

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    Shaun post 21? Didnt Alby say something about a by election somewhere? :-)

  • http://www.sirfindogask.co.uk Sir Findo Gask

    Just a point to the Chuckle Brothers Shaun & David,

    Ravenscliffe is part of N-u-L Borough council and therefore, I don’t have any interest in the By Election to be held there.

    PnP is a place for open discussion about what is going on in the City of Stoke-on-Trent I am getting tired of the ‘my dad is bigger than your dad’ postings that you two seem to resort to. As other have rightly pointed out, you very often hijack a post to turn it in to a forum for your playground antics.

    If you wish to carry on then please contact Tony and we have been having discussions about running a question time type event where local politicians are able to be questioned by the public…..

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    Sir Findo, Ravenscliffe falls under the Stoke North Constituency.

    I am certainly interested in a question time style event between candidates and eleceted members,….. of all parties. Tony has my details if you wish to arrange.

  • Shaun Bennett

    Yes David’s right there actually. My goodness, we’ll get this discussed somehow! :-)

    However I do note that yet again I’ve tried to get back to what Cllr Walker has said (which is the point of all this isn’t it?) and i’ve been followed by yet more posts talking about the place that I’m not going to mention!

  • Anon E Mouse

    @ Tory Boy Shauny Boy
    I was surprised that no one has commented on my delight that the race equality council had gone into administration. Does this mean that we all agree that its either not important or is a good thing???

    NO! it means people have stopped reading the tirade of drivel that you seem to be able to produce…

  • http://www.sirfindogask.co.uk Sir Findo Gask

    David, I stand corrected.. I thought it was NuL..

    :)

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    Sir Findo, it gets very confussing under the new boundries around the top end of Stoke North.

    Some parts have gone into Stafford morrlands, Sme move into Stoke north from N-u-L, namely Kidsgrove and its wards and a tiny little bit (four houses) comes across from Cheshire.

    Worse still there are three councils covering the same one constituency….. and these are pretty much the same people who advise on good governance!!!!

  • Shaun Bennett

    As I understand the boundary changes in Stoke North its fairly simple. All the Kidsgrove wards were in Stoke North before 1997 along with the northern wards of the city. At the 97 election these were removed to the Moorlands (where they were before 1974) and replaced by a couple of Moorlands wards around Endon and Stanley and Brown Edge.

    The most recent changes simply reverse that essentially with the rural wards going back into the Moorlands and Kidsgrove coming back into Stoke North-except for the Newchapel ward.

    And now back to the thread,

    Anon Mouse, I don’t think I’ve seen you on here before. I have to say, if you are as dismissive of all views that you disagree with then you won’t be taken very seriously.

    And I also suggest you look up the meaning of words before you start running off at the mouth. A single sentence opinion in response to one of the issues mentioned in the article cannot by any stretch of the imagination be described as a ‘tirade’.

    The news was that the race equality commission had called in the administrators. I simply replied positively. Not a tirade, Mr Mouse, just a view. Its what we in this country call democratic debate.

  • http://www.sirfindogask.co.uk Sir Findo Gask

    Shaun, you say all the Kidsgrove wards went to Staffs Moorlands?

    I lived in Kidsgrove not far from Newchapel in around 1999 – 2000 and we paid our Council Tax to N-u-L

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    No Sir Findo, we are talking parliamentary boundrary. It is a strange anomoly in this area that PB dont follow BC or CC wards and boundries.

    Kidsgrove comes under Newcastle Borough Council for its taxes and other things but has a Town COuncil ofr a lower tier of government.

    The Stoke North constituency covers wards that are in Stoke on Trent and Newcastle borough and thats actually why unlike the other seats it is only refered to as Stoke North and Not Stoke-on-Trent North.

    Some people have said its all a very big gerry mander by the Labour group to win the seat for Joan Walley, actually the only peple who gain from it are the Lib Dems as it gets rid of the Endon end of the area that we poll poor and puts the Kidsgrove seats that we hold at Town and Soon to be borough (along with the ones we already hold – soon be a complete slate) into the PC

  • True socialist

    David Jack again shows how misinformed he is.
    The boundaries of parliamentary constituencies are set by the boundary commission, an independent body whose remit is to ensure that the electorate of each constituency is more or less equal and communities are kept together in the same constituency wherever possible. The is no question of gerrymandering.
    I can see that Joan Walley has nothing to fear from you, nor would she have anyway as she is a constituency MP second to none.

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    See true socalist, hear only want you want…. i said some had made the comment of gerrymandering by the Labour group, i didnt say i believed…. quite the opposite…

    as for the next general election, we shall see but anyone with a shred of comon sense knows Brown and Za Nu Labour will not make the next government and only a Labour party card carrying baffoon would think they are the party that serves this country best… have you not noticed the mess we are in?? No wonder the BNP have no opposition with closed minds like this at the forefront of local politics.

    tell us, how is Labour going to bring jobs and prosperity to the area and repair all the damage this self serving Government has done with its raid on pension funds, the selling off of the countries gold reserves, with the dracionian laws that are unenforced, with the undermining of our once proud and great democracy?

    Until real, credable, tangable evidence and solid policy from Labour, rather than lip service to the cause is given the BNP will continue to go fro strength to strength in many areas that Labour and Tory candidates and elected members forget or dismiss.

  • Shaun Bennett

    David is right, Sir Findo in that the Kidsgrove wards are still under Newcastle for local government but are now in the Stoke North parliamentary seat.

    As True socialist has pointed out however, it is not in the least bit unusual for parliamentary boundaries to not folllow exact borough boundaries. The vast majority of constituencies do not in fact do this, and Stoke North is no exception.

    I do note however that Wolverhampton constituencies (where David was last PPC for) DO in fact exactly follow the borough boundaries, so mabye he’s not used to cross over.

    I also have to say David that whilst the moving of the Kidsgrove wards into Stoke North could well be described as a bit of a political fix, I’m afriad you are blaming the wrong people. I can tell you that there was no party more delighted by the decsion than the Conservatives. Labour were absolutely furious.

    Labour wanted to solidify the moorlands wards in Stoke North to keep Kidsgrove in the Moorlands constituency. They even went so far as to suggest changing the name of the constituency to Stoke-on-Trent North and Moorlands West to back up the link.

    Frankly, Labour don’t feel in the least bit threatened by the Lib Dems in Stoke North. But there are enough Labour voters in Kidsgrove as opposed to Tories to make a HUGE difference to the result in the Moorlands seat. The loss of Kidsgrove to Stoke North has practically delivered the Moorlands to the Tories and made not a scrap of difference to Labour’s massive majority in Stoke North. Believe me, I for one couldn’t be happier!

    P.S. I understood that Endon and Stanley was a Lib Dem ward? Although it is not as large as Kidsgrove so you are probably on balance correct in thinking that the Lib Dems are slightly better off under the new boundaries.

    And before people start complaining about irrelevance again, please note that I am merely replying to the issues raised!

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    No Shaun, the point i made was that some people had stated it was a gerry mander, i did not… i am more than well versed in the boundrary commissions work, i worked with them previously……

    On ‘co-terminus’ or contigious boundries, most in West Midlands do follow city or borough ward boundries. Round here they dont, up Yorkshire way they do and then in southern seats they dont…. there is no ‘proper’ model. I would have thought personally that when the boundrary commission make their decisions on community one fact of a community would be the council that serves an area being in comon?

    And me fat fingered typing has reappeared!! :-)

  • True socialist

    Err… sorry but thats wrong again David.
    Its very common for constituency boundaries to overlap local authority boundaries. In fact there are very few constituencies in London, for example, which don’t. And there are lots in the West Midlands which also cross local authority boundaries. Eg. Halesowen & Rowley Regis contains wards from both Sandwell and Dudley. And closer to home the Stone constituency contains wards from Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staffordshire Moorlands and Stafford Borough.
    I think the Lib Dems need to send you back to school David.

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    True socialist, get a life… everything i say according to you is wrong… you are the typical left wing rabnter that really makes my blood boil and this country weep.

    The majority of PC are coterminus with local authority boundries…. fact.

    Jesus next you will be telling me the moon IS made of cheese…. arese

  • terry turbo

    David, having read your posts on this site, and if what you say is geuine, I realy believe you have a seious chance of defeating Joan Walley.
    You, and Shaun put some very good points forward in the debates.
    We’ll have to see what happens, it will be very interesting to see.

  • True socialist

    Sorry David, but resorting to abuse only shows what a p*** poor candidate you are.
    See you at Ravenscliffe!

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    Doubt that we will actually see you there as your the type that say everything but very rarely put it into action……

    and i called you an arse because thats an opinion i hold quite dear of you and your looney socialist left wing died in the 70′s ideaology that you have done absolutely nothing to dispell.

    … bring something of consequnce to the debate and i might be interested in taking you serious. But then again anyone who thinks the sun shines out of the backside of this government at this moment is quite clearly ill.

  • St George

    Please switch off this Shaun and David show !

    Its been switching me off the site!!

    Some blogs postings are just them two chatting !!!

    Swap phone numbers…

    Tideswellman.
    Back to subject.
    It is a very sad day when an institute like the NS REC collapses after 30 years of supporting minority and majority groups in the area, and helping them both to come together, and to sort out their differences.

    Case in point, I was a member of a group that used to meet there alot, where the sole purpose was to mix peoples of all nationalities (inc white), to enable better understanding and integration of all communities.

    Their bread and butter was of course dealing with racial incidents and harrassment. It makes me sad to say that in Stoke today, that kept them very busy.

    I also know that, with the recent changes in legislation and the demise of the CRE, and the start of the all Equalities organisations, the REC was looking to move in that direction.

    This city is crying out for an organisation to take the lead on the Equalities agenda as a whole. This area of inequality is massive. Agism. Racism. Homophobia. Sexism. Disabiliies. Fatism. Thinism. etc etc. There is more that affect people in their dayly lives.

    I also know that the council is moving to assist in that direction.
    We need it now. It cannot come soon enough.

  • Daydream Believer

    I love you St George!

  • Mark Machin

    Since we drifted on to Parliamentary boundaries…

    From what I remember of the last boundary review, the only really big reason for reviewing Stoke on Trent and Staffordshire boundaries *together* was the fact that the number of wards in Stoke on Trent cannot be divided by three.

    Were it not for that fact, Stoke on Trent would likely have three parliamentary seats without having to share those MP’s with other local authorities.

    Sometimes I wonder what type of weed the Boundary Commission are smoking, Newcastle BC is split between not 2, not 3, but *4* parliamentary seats at the next election. If an issue regarding the whole of the borough arose, it’s residents would be able to legitimately raise the issue with the Staffs Moorlands, Stoke North, Newcastle BC and Stone MP’s!!

    Not bad for an authority that doesn’t quite have enough population to justify two full seats to itself.

  • JMS

    Goodness! Do any of the more frequent bloggers work and if so how on earth do they find the time to “contribute” so much?!

  • Mark Machin

    Something to bear in mind if the wards in Stoke on Trent are reviewed in the near future!

    (sorry, hit submit too early!)

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    Nice thought Mark

    JMS… its the power of Blueberries….. or blackberries, depends which brand you have, i think mines a Gooseberry. :-)

  • Mark Machin

    JMS said on on Feb 3rd, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    Goodness! Do any of the more frequent bloggers work and if so how on earth do they find the time to “contribute” so much?!

    Oh it’s easy, I’m here, on a television forum and playing an online game all at the same time!

    I leave the berries alone tho, a traditional desktop computer is the only equipment that can cope with my level of multitasking!

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    But Mark how do you get one of them on the bus then? :-)

    I cant even beat me four year old nice at Sonic hedgehog still.!! :-)

  • Shaun Bennett

    St George, mabye if more people had more to say on many of the blogs, it wouldn’t be just the same people talking between themselves. Have you thought of that possibility? I suspect that you just want to come here to either have a go at or praise to the hilt the BNP. I suppose a bit of thinking about things that don’t come down to the racist-not racist argument is a bit much for you?

    In this case I am shamelessly going to continue the debate that has emerged (and I should add despite my attempts to stick to what Cllr Walker has written).

    True Socialist is right in that there is no real standard model about constituencies following local authority boundaries. However David is also correct to say that the boundary commission tries wherever it can to stick to them. It really depends what exactly we are arguing about here. Many boroughs are essentially paired when creating constituencies-I think thats mostly what happens in metropolitan and unitary authorities. And indeed, sometimes, unitary authorities are considered along with their ceremonial county or even as clusters of unitary authorities that used to form an old abolished county. On top of that there are many constituencies out there that contain bits and pieces from a number of different boroughs (sometimes as many as four or five in really rural areas).

    Actually, one solution to this (and returning to another of my hobby horses) would be to break down existing boroughs into much smaller communities and base local authorities on them. In that case, Stoke North could well be broken down into seperate Kidsgrove, Burslem and Tunstall authorities and then pair them into one constituency so that the PC boundaries are then exactly the same as the three boroughs taken together.

    Alternatively, if and when the ward boundaries are reviewed, if they are made much much smaller it would be easier for the parliamentary boundary commission to split off smaller areas and thus equalise constituency electorates without necessarily crossing borough boundaries.

    Finally, I have to say, as the ‘new’ boundaries were drawn up around 8 years ago and have not even been used yet at a general election, the commission will really have to get their finger out next time if they are to get their changes submitted by the turn of the century!

    And did I hear someone who wasn’t me mention the ward that must not be mentioned? :-)

  • Mark Machin

    I’m not sure that smaller wards are a good thing, at least not in terms of parliamentary boundaries.

    Sure it makes it easier to balance the areas so that they are more equal in population. But it also makes it easier to pinch a ward from one authority to balance a seat, then drop another and so on and so on.

    Hence what they have done with Newcastle Council area, where one ward (Newchapel) represented by 2 councillors (out of the 60 on the council) are in a completely different parliamentary seat to the rest of the council.

    It’s utter madness, but it happens all over the country like this because the boundary commission doesn’t care too much about council areas themselves. It will look at an entire County (or an entire Unitary authority if it’s big enough and easy enough to split equally) and attempt to balance the numbers.

    Hence Newchapel (which stretches up to Mow Cop, which itself is split into three different council areas and two different counties – but thats another story) is deemed to be of similar stock to the Biddulph areas in Staffs Moorlands, and that is good enough to validate their number balancing act.

    It’s amazing how much fuss a few lines on a map can produce!

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    Mark, especisally when drawn in the sand in the dessert.!

  • Shaun Bennett

    Agreed. Of course, my smaller boroughs would make things even easier for the commission than smaller wards.

  • Shaun Bennett

    I know most people probably aren’t interested in this, so I’ve chosen a relvent(ish) very old blog to put it on.

    The Tories have won the Ravenscliffe by election. Labour came a very strong second with the BNP polling very well in third. The Lib Dems who I thought may well have a chance came a pretty poor fourth and were almost relegated to fifth behind the UKIP!

    So come on David Jack, where are you? Lets here your explanation for this disgracefully bad Lib Dem result? Was it because of the scurrilous and unfair allegations that the party was making against the outgoing Tory councillor? Was it that people simply didn’t like your nasty campaign?

    Or was it something to do with your partys supreme arrogance in daring to presume that you had already as good as won it?

    Quote- “Mark …. dont….. Shaun is very touchy about it,,,, he may very well look like the fool he sounds with all the mouthing off about how solid a Tory seat it is” David Jack, comment 6 above.

    I also liked “Shaun, The Lib Dem vote is never threatened by the BNP vote as the people who vote BNP very rarely vote Lib Dem if no BNP candidate was stood. It is UKIP and Tory that predominately lose out to BNP as it is the ‘righter wing from middle’ of politics that attracts the BNP vote.” David Jack comment 9 above.

    Presumably then, a party that comes behind the BNP and only just ahead of UKIP in an area that they were previously strong in must be truely disasterous?

    David Jack was forever telling us that the Lib Dems were winning it, “WHEN we win” etc. I always thought it would be close, and I thought the Lib Dems may well win. But the way the Lib Dems took the people of Ravenscliffe for granted was a disgrace.

    You richly deserve your fourth place; I hope you’re very happy with it. In my view, justice for Sarah Myatt and for Ravenscliffe has been done. I don’t want to say I told you so…but I do seem to remember advising you not to say anything too silly before the result is known.

    Let this matter now (thankfully, many people are sighing) be put to rest.

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    Dont know shaun, still eating the omlette off me face…! :-)

    All i can say is if UKIP hadnt of stood we would have the first BNP councillor in Newcastle. There was a siesmic shift to the far right!

    And expect eevn more from the BNP now, i spoke with ALby tonight and get the impression this is just the prelude to a massive BNP camapign in Stoke North!!

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    PS, for the record, Sarah Myatts house was up for sale in July last year!!! Now was that a last minute sell up and move or planned well in advance?

    ANd dont be so coo yourslef, you only just scrapped ahead of LAbour and only slightly better than the BNP too.!!

    But hey, i can aford to buy a beer or two nexct time we meet up, its only money.! :-)

  • Shaun Bennett

    Gracious in defeat.

    Let me emphasise that I don’t usually go around rubbing peoples noses in their defeats. But I really do think the Lib Dem camapign was real gutter stuff, and you were so convinced that the result was certain. Lets now draw a line under the whole affair.

    I’m not so sure that all those UKIP votes would translate into BNP votes if they had not stood. For instance, I am very much considering voting…a different way shall we say at the EU elections. But I would never vote BNP. I’m sure many other people feel the same way.

    The left cannot get away with trying to say that there is very little difference between UKIP and the BNP. That is utter nonsense. They may agree on EU withdrawel, but in my experience UKIP is a very sensible, moderate (slightly misguided) party. I’d not be too upset to be represented by them in my ward, whereas the BNP of course are a different matter.

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    Shaun, i just finished doing the maths of the vote share, swing ect…. you got an email address?

    Its very scary actually, drop me a line at davidjack@stokenorthlibdems.com

  • Shaun Bennett

    Based on change from May 2008 result:

    Cons 25.39 -14.47
    Lab 23.61 +1.23
    BNP 19.96 NA
    LD 16.52 -2.36
    UKIP 14.52 -4.36

    MAJ= 1.78% Cons to Lab swing 7.85%

    I don’t think thats particularly scary. I was a bit surprised that Labour polled so well and that the BNP did quite well too. But presumably, Labour would have been doing their usual con of telling people to vote Labour or risk letting the BNP in, so I shouldn’t be too surprised.

    UKIP held up fantasticly well given that it was the first time the BNP had stood. The Lib Dems too don’t seem to have lost to much share of the vote, but of course the surprise for me there is that they lost votes AT ALL! They really should have been a lot closer than this.

    The Tory vote fell sharply. However, we have a Tory controlled council, it was a competitive by-election in a ward we never won before a couple of years ago, the other parties were able to attack and misrepresent the Tory record, there was outrageous spinning against the former Tory councillor from some parties. It was also the first time the BNP had stood there, so there was bound to be a large shift in the region of around 15% (the figure I expected them to get).

    So yes I’m dissapointed that the Tory vote was hit hard. But if the BNP had stood last May, then I think we would have seen little change from then.

    A win is a win, and I know we’re all absolutely over the moon to have won it. I thought we may lose, so no David I’m not scared or concerned. I’m delighted.