CRAIG POND RESIGNS FROM THE BNP!

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Pitsnpots can reveal that Stoke BNP Branch Secretary and Chairman of the Policy Group Craig Pondunionjack has resigned from the party he has supported for many years!

Craig posted this on his “Wasted Money” article:

“Tony,
I resigned last night as both Branch Secretary and Chairman of the Policy Group, over an impasse we reached concerning policy. We simply have different views on this subject and were unable to work out a compromise. I wish them all the best for the future, but it’s plain mine lies in a different direction, so I’ll be resigning my membership later on today.
From now on, all posts by Craig Pond on pitsnpots will be as an independent voice, not as a representative of any political party.
Need to sit down and take stock, see you later.”

This article has created lots of debate on this site.

Stoke BNP leader Alby Walker and Cllrs Ellie Walker and Mike Coleman were keen to distance themselves from this article when it was brought to their attention by Mike Barnes during the Corporate Plan debate in the council chamber last Thursday.

Pitsnpots received this article from Craig Pond yesterday (Sunday). He as made it clear that he is posting as an independent contributor to the site and not on behalf of any political party:

“Anyone elected as a councillor in this city will find themselves with two distinct areas of responsibility. The first is as a ward councillor representing the cares and concerns of those who were directly responsible for your election.

The second, is as a city councillor, here you have to represent the city as a whole, not just a little part of it.

As a ward councillor, it’s attention to detail that gets you the gratitude of the people you serve. Cutting lawns and hedges for those that would struggle to do it themselves, bingo for the pensioners, litter picking and graffiti cleaning, you know the sort of things required. But how much of this type of work actually goes into affecting the real changes needed in this city to get it back on track?

This won’t help restart the economy, it won’t produce jobs, it doesn’t help out with the housing shortage, and there are lots of other things needed that this won’t help.

So, what we need are two sets of policies, one that deals with problems at a ward level, and others that deal with the problems at city level.

The problem with this is, will all those councillors that are good at their ward work be just as good at their city work? And the same goes the other way round.

Perhaps what we should look at is a way of getting the best councillors for the job into doing the job? Those with a talent for ward-work oversee the daily running of the city, those who are better suited to creating and implementing policy should oversee the city work.

There is one indisputable fact about the way forward for this city, and that is policy!

Policy will be what starts this city going again, be it housing, economy transport, environment, all these things need addressing, and all these things if done correctly will have a positive effect on the city.

With the approach of major regime changes at the Civic Centre, now is the time for the councillors to be looking how best to implement change for good, and not just for the sake of it, and to realise that a quarter of a million lives will be affected by the decisions they make. The policies they choose to put to work are what will make the difference between getting started or sinking deeper, the choice is yours.”

News also came our way the Terry Cope had decided to follow Craig’s lead and resign from the BNP. Both will continue to contribute to the site as independent voices.

Despite my political beliefs being at the other end of the spectrum than Craig & Terry’s, you can’t help but think that Stoke BNP have lost two tireless, committed and motivated party activists.

Over to you…….. Please comment on Craig’s decision to resign and his subsequent article which is highlighted in blue.

Have Your Say

  • James

    Resigned, or pushed by national party due to constantly posting comments on sites that undermine Nick Griffin’s “modernisation” of the party image?

  • http://tideswellman.blogspot.com Tideswellman

    Whilst I wasn’t there, and so cannot really comment in any sureity. It would seem to me like Craig has stood by his convictions. I would certainly commend him for this. I may not agree with his politics but it seems he does have some scruples.

    The BNP on the other hand don’t want the real policy of their ideology out in the public domain. so no doubt there have been some clashes about what can be said publicly as opposed to privately.

    If this came from an attempt to muzzle Craig for openly speaking his mind, then it shows us all just how close Nick Griffin is prepared to bring the BNP to be to what he calls ZANU Labour.

    Perhaps I’m reading between the lines though.

  • Gary Elsby

    I only have a few short questions to Craig.

    What different direction do you speak of?

    How is your preffered direction different from the National(ist) stance?

    Do you view Alby Walker’s lead to be weak or deceitful?

  • Warren

    Like Tideswellman, I commend both Craig and terry for doing what they tought best, if a party is not for you, leave, you never you might find out you get more surport in doing that. Commitment is a fine thing, its a pitty mery stick blindly with leaders who have no idea of commitment, just look how this Labour govenment constantly let this country down, putting non-elcteded fools like Mandelson in power. Got something to say Garry.

  • craig pond

    Myself, Terry Cope,and Sam Tunstall all believe that the way forward is through sound, common-sense policies on every area subject to council handling, and getting them out in front of the public, though I’m sure that Terry and Sam will explain their feelings on it in their own way.
    Tideswellman.
    It was a principled stand. When your beliefs
    are 100%, you have no choice but to do what you have to to air those views. Our ideas on policy differed from other members of the group, and an impasse was reached. We chose the only viable option as we saw it.

    Gary.
    For us, policy is the way forward. Every political group with representatives on the city council should be made to put before the public the policies they would implement upon being voted into power. Decisions on who got to run the city would be made on who has the right plans, not who said the right things.
    My outlook has changed little. I know what you’re getting at so let me explain it clearly.
    British jobs for British workers! Britons should come before anyone else in the pecking order in their own country. Never mind spending millions of pounds on BME communities, let’s get our elderly looked after, lets get
    citywide funding for the youth of today, let’s tackle the housing shortage by building houses, and make them available to Britons first.
    I know you don’t like nationalism, and that’s your choice, but as far as I’m concerned, you look after your own first and then worry about the rest.

    I’d like to see them drop the seige mentality, and push their policies and beliefs in a far more open way, but that is not my decision to make. As a group they will have a plan, I would imagine that they would stick to that.

  • Paul Billington

    I am certainly no fan of the BNP but one thing I did have some small amount of respect for was the fact that certain of their number were prepared to openly debate (albeit with expletives moderated) publically important issues on a site like this, as they (BNP) seemed unwilling to do so in City Council forums.
    Craig, Terry, I doubt we will agree on many things, past present or future, but I think you did at least put forwards your points of view, and I may disagree with those views, but I would always hope that in a society of free speech that you should have the right to express them, however unpalatable I may have found them.
    I hope that this “contributor void” will indeed be filled by someone with authority to speak for Stoke BNP. As I say, I disagree with their views vehemently, separatist and factionalist ideologies can only divide people, not unite them.
    What this City desperately needs is unity. There is some analogy to be drawn from the fact that we federated the towns a Century ago (1910) to give us a united front! Vis unita fortior- united strength is stronger!
    One can only hope that we begin to see that in action in the Council before another century passes us by.

  • craig pond

    How will you achieve unity if you fund the BME communities seperately, thereby encouraging segregation?
    How will you achieve unity by financially favouring those same BME communities?
    You can only achieve unity if you treat everyone the same, and if you treat everyone the same, that will mean
    redistributing monies, so if indigenous Brits make up 85% of the population, then 85% of the available money should be passed on to them.
    The other blatantly obvious point is that you can’t attain unity with a group of people that don’t want to integrate, and the vast majority of the muslim population don’t want to integrate.
    This is what I referred to in my comment earlier. It’s easy to mouth platitudes like these, but let’s see what
    policies you have that will bring about this unity.

  • Gary Elsby

    Craig, as I see it, you tell the truth as you see it but Alby and Co. dare not say what they actually think and so instead put out election leaflets informing us of XXXX Councillors expenses and pay. Usually gets a good response (even though Alby and Ellie trouser a near £30K).

    Yes, I abhor Nationalism because it is a sceond class/rate form of politics and is easily ventured by youngsters with no real perspective of the world.

    Your policy of no British soldiers abroad speaks volumes of British influence being relegated to the couldn’t care less division.

    According to you (and Alby) this Government or previous Tory Governments couldn’t or didn’t give a damn about the young, elderly or the homeless. You have no proof whatsoever of these claims but offer a hatred of foreigners in place of hard evidence. It’s got you some success but a million miles from St. Stephen’s entrance.

    But the distance now opened up by you and Alby is my main focus and believe me: I WILL PROSECUTE THAT DISTANCE IN 50,000 LEAFLETS HITTING THE ABBEY SOON.

    I happen to believe in your honesty, Craig and I openly give you credit for it but I am a Socialist (on the higher ground) and you are a split Party with the pretence sitting in Glebe Street.
    Alby cringed at what he saw as the family silver being displayed for all to see and all those Johnny foreigners taking council tax to prop up their cause.

    Interesting, don’t you think, that foreigners have split your party, relegated you from the front line and is the precursor to the removal of the BNP from Stoke?

  • craig pond

    This is hardly a national disiaster for the BNP! We reached a point which we couldn’t get past and parted company.
    I can’t speak for the BNP, if you want to know their stance, their beliefs, talk to their councillors.

    You are entitled to your opinion, but agreeing on a policy of not sending our armed forces off to fight other peoples battles, especially when those battles don’t threaten British interests, I would have thought that had the backing of everyone!
    There is no proof that the Tories forewent their obligatory duty to look after the people of this country??
    What do you think closing the pits was then? Or stating that there was no such thing as community? Or killing off our manufacturing base in order to build a reliance on banking and investments?
    The Tories are every bit as culpable for the state this country is in, as those lunatics and traitors you support!

    I’m glad you believe in my honesty, it is genuine, but like I say, if you want to talk about leaflets, or the list, Councillor Walker and Councillor Coleman are easy to reach through the Civic Centre.

  • terry turbo

    Gary, waste your money on 50,000 leaflets, the people of the Abbey have seen your “higher ground socialism”, and rejected it.
    Your rant in that area will fall on deaf ears.
    You know sometimes I think you are living on another planet, with your thinking.
    We want a united council that serves the people, fairly and honestly, and will keep fighting to that end.
    We have ideas that we believe will take this city into the 21st century, and involve everybody, to create a City to be proud of once again.
    We want jobs to go to the city’s population, not outsiders who are only interested in their bank accounts.
    We want a council that spends our money wisely, not on hairbrained schemes that end up costing us millions.
    Gary your sarcasm is expected given your political view, but wasted.

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    “Higher ground socialism”? What next, the meek inherit the land? You should join up with Gavin Webb who actually said he feels like he is a God in a podcast in America last week. :-)

    Craig, you wouldnt have quit the BNP to lead the Tories now that Cllr X will be calling a by election anytime soon have you? :-)

  • craig pond

    David,
    of all the cruel and unpleasant insults I’ve had to
    handle, yours is the worst! lol.
    Just taking stock and considering what options are open.

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    i would be mortally wounded if someone told me i was standing for the Tories again.!!! :-)

  • Anonomoose

    Never expected to find myself saying this, but I have genuine sympathy and regard for Mr. Pond and Mr. Cope and the stand they have taken in resigning their BNP membership.

    They have had the courage to stay true to the real values of their (former) party rather than go along with the sanitised ‘respectable’ version being promoted by Michael Coleman and Alby Walker.

    I hope that Stoke-on-Trent politics has not seen the last of you.

  • Gary Elsby

    I don’t feel at all sorry for this shower but I grudgingly allow myself to give a little credit for their honesty. Of course, none deny the holocaust by their mates.

    Craig suggests that a bnp policy of no troops abroad is welcomed by almost everyone in this Country. He has no proof of this as I have no hard evidence of British responsibility and welcomed influence abroad but I would suggset that the British influence abroad using military means is favourably acknowledged by a huge majority in this Country.
    I don’t wear the notion which the bnp follow that the public are against the wider British influence being harnessed to this Island.

    If I’m right, then the bnp will never gain a single Parliamentary seat, ever.

    Craig, while you venture into the realms of the mining industry to further your claims of Conservative malpractice against the young, the elderly and the homeless (your original claim) I can give you slight acknowledgement of that but your over-riding hatred of foreigners and historically rubbished protectionist policies wreck any chance you have gaining ground with that argument.

    You either despise Toryism or Foreigners, which is it? (I accept you hate all Governments, including my Socialist three times winning one).

    Now this bit about me wastingmy time in the Abbey putting out my case for Labour.
    Alby knows I mean business and my printing press is on its way. If I say 50,000 leaflets hammering home my message, Alby knows that’s a minimum. I well remember putting through a leaflet at some unsuspecting house in the Abbey and within seconds, an irate looking resident ( A Nazi City Councillor-not Alby or his family) came out and said:
    “No thanks” and handed it back to me.

    I asked, in my polite socialist way: Why?

    “Too many Pakis”, came the reply.

    When this guy talks of ‘playing on a bit of misery’, I have no doubts to the depths of his determination to do so.

    You have left a wicked and disgusting party, Craig, be pleased that you have now seen the light. Enjoy Socialist Britain with a clear mind expunged from the blindness of racism and division.

  • craig pond

    Mr Elsby, you do talk b*llocks.
    If you have a problem with BNP policy of any nature, take it up with them. I believe Councillor Coleman has taken over the stewardship of the policy group, go and tell him, because I am no longer a member, an officer, or an activist of the BNP.

  • Gary Elsby

    That’s it, Craig, distance yourself from their horror story and be at ease with yourself.

    It won’t be long until you’re standing for the Tories and shouting at walls about scroungers and malingerers milking the system.

  • craig pond

    You’ll never live to see the day when I’m standing shouting for the bloody Tories!

  • http://www.myspace.com/rebeccarittersfan Tim Mullen

    Craig, you said that “indigenous Brits make up 85% of the population, so 85% of the money should be spent on them”; I presume you’re going to be consistent then and include the bankers on multi-million pound pensions who are, after all, part of your 85% of indigenous Brits?

    You miss the point that only if everyone is equal can we have an equal society, and that the point of funding specific areas of the community – and it’s not as if your “white, working class” communities have gone without – is to bring those disadvantaged sections of society up so that they are on the same level playing field as the more fortunate in society.

  • terry turbo

    Gary, where is this utopian “socialist” Britain you keep harping on about.
    All Labour have done is put the country in the gutter, with their lunatic policies, and feathered their nests by robbing the less well of with higher and higher tax’s.
    I (and a lot of other people) don’t subscribe to your left wing politics, that have done so much damage to this country.

  • craig pond

    I’m not missing the point Tim. I think in Britian, that the indigenous British should come first. There shouldn’t be ethnic communities that are so big they interfere and change our very culture.
    The more a people are like you, the easier it becomes to assimilate them into your society, and the more you can assimilate.
    The less like you people are, the harder it is for them to assimilate into your society, urgo, the less you can take.
    The problem is that this ridiculous Labour party has invited far too many of the latter into this country, and far from it being bad now, wait until the accelerated birthrate of these foreigners starts to impact on the future make up of this country. It is forecast that by 2060, white, native Britons will be a minority in their own country, a fact that has to be unacceptable to any right thinking person.
    This isn’t about villifying the immigrants, you can’t blame them for taking what’s on offer, this is about
    villifying the government specifically, but the LibLabCon
    in general.
    You will never convince me that it is alright to steal the homeland from one set of people, and hand it over to another, yet the cockroaches of Westminster are doing exactly that.

  • Gary Elsby

    Because I’m a lost cause, Terry, you will have to explain to me where lunatic policies and Labour entwine.

    I can argue the toss about any and all Labour policies and I can further guarantee you that is exactly the case in most branches and CLPs of the S-o-T Labour Party.

    But you specifically say that those policies (that collectively Labour members agree with or disagree with) have put this Country in the gutter.

    I’ve been a member of the Labour Party for nearly 30 years and I require an explanation of being in the gutter.

    I don’t accept that view even if I put into the equation those policies that I fundamentally disagree with, openly oppose and vote against at every opportunity.

    I say you’re wrong and painting a picture that fails to materialise.

    Even my worst emenies in the Labour Party (I have none-they all love me) who vote the other way, do so with the best interests of the Country at heart.

    In every policy that has sneaked past me, I cannot think of one that harmed this Country with a Socialist tag nailed to it.

    Civil Liberties is another matter though and any attempt to persuade me otherwise that severe alterations to them is for the benefit of this Country will fall on my deaf ears.

    I offer no apologies to Labour colleagues who think otherwise.

    But you are wrong Terry on your claims.

  • craig pond

    Gary,
    I don’t think Terry is wrong when he talks of Labours lunatic policies, and the disasterousd effects they’ve had on this country.
    Gordon Brown had a decade as chancellor that was perfect for major growth, benign financial markets that fluctuated little, an economy of consistancy and growth.
    Anyone in his position would have been salting money away through these good times, ensuring the continuance of the strong financial position inherited from the Tories.
    Anyone can make a mistake, but Gordon Brown grew more and more like Mr Bean!
    He took the rebate out of the pensions pot and assigned
    tens of thousands of pensioners to a future very close to the poverty line. He sold half our gold reserve at less than $200 an ounce, only to see it rise to over $1000 an
    ounce within months. The Chinese bought most of that gold by the way.
    His next step was to start interfering with the Bank of
    Englands regulatory abilities.
    He couldn’t get elected as Prime Minister, he has to take it from the previous two faced, lying b*st*rd as a bloody handmedown. His incompetence and weakness have played a major part in multiplying what should have been a downturn into a major financial catastrophy!
    We are still involved in two illegal wars, our soverign powers are reduced on a weekly basis as we surrender to the EU, his government are made up of mostly ex-communists
    and far left lunatics, their betrayal of the British armed forces is as despicable as it is unforgivable, they have flooded this country with vast amounts of third world dross when we were promised skilled workers, we now have diseases affecting British lives that we thought we had got rid of 40 bloody years ago, our social infrastructure is collapsing, but hey Gary, let’s not blame these stalinist tossers for it!
    I could write for several hours on the damage inflicted on this country, be it physical, social, political, etc.
    This group of traitors you insist on supporting have sold out the people of this country, the identity of the people, and the very culture that our lives revolve around. Let me tell you something, there isn’t a one of these pocket lining fornicators I wouldn’t want to see dragged before the courts of this land, half for treason, the other half for theft!
    That’s your party Gary, and it’s about time you dropped
    the childish denial and shamefully put your hand up to
    treachery inflicted on us by you and your cohorts.

  • terry turbo

    Labour took a thriving economy and blew it, putting the tax-payer in debt for years to come.
    Policy’s of division of the communities.
    Policy’s of war mongering, backed by lies.
    Policy’s of the destruction of our History, Culture, and Heritage.
    Policy’s of traitorism, by their European fantasy land to fill their bank accounts.
    Policy’s on intrusion into our lives, via spying on our internet accounts, phones, political persuasion, and childrens databases.
    Where do you want me to start, on this Communist based, moraly bankrupt Government.

  • Plane Jane

    Call me a cynic, but isn’t it funny how the “independent” voices of Craig Pond and “Terry Turbo” sound exactly like they did when they were staunch BNP activists?

    Everyone who disagrees with them is still a “traitor” or a “communist”.

    So is their claimed principled departure from the BNP actually just a clever move by the party so they can present the public with a respectable face (and have less chance of being done for incitement), while leaving Craig and Terry free to rant out the true policies of the BNP?

    After all, Craig and Terry still seem very loyal to their old friends and don’t seem to be encouraging us to vote for anyone else.

  • James

    I don’t think they’ve really left the party.

    I’m more inclined to believe it’s a ruse to disassociate the Ponds’ rabid rants from the party so they don’t undermine Nick Griffin’s makeover. Terry’s “gone” just to make it look more convincing.

    Bit like when they leaked their own party membership list to try and convince us that their social demographics weren’t the stereotype, and pin the blame on “disaffected” members – better known as willing fall guys.

  • craig pond

    Jumbo Jane,
    you will find the name of a good psychotherapist in the phone book. I would suggest you dig it out poste haste, you seem to be in urgent need.

    Of all the points made in my last posting, is this honestly the best reply you could manage? How about debating any of the criticisms I made? You did mention communists as if I’d made a mistake, or was just name calling.
    Brown- ex-commie
    Straw-ex commie
    Reid-ex commie
    Blunkett ex commie
    the Millipede brothers- raised by a raging marxist
    Charles Clarke- ex commie
    Hodge- ex commie
    Harriet Harpy is insane,
    Ruth Kelly is a man,
    Tessa Jowels hubby took a bribe, but she didn’t know where he got the money to pay off the mortgage!!
    Jacqui Smith is a pocket lining tosser,
    so is Gorbals Mick and his taxi abusing wife.

    There is so much with which to attack the Labour party hierarchy because they are all either stupid, light fingered, incompetent, liars, or a mixture of some, if not all, of the above.
    And then there’s Andy Burnham, who has eyelashes like a doll(??!!), Peter Hain who’s another light fingered, two faced git, James Purnell, who thinks it’s a good idea to give out of work asians extra money, but none for the indigenous inhabitants, and let’s not forget Lord Ahmed,
    driving and texting, who took a mans life through his own negligence, he got 12 weeks!! Jeffery Archer did three years for telling porkies!!!
    Now if you want to take me to task over any inaccuracies
    please feel free to do so, just don’t take my abhorrance of the members of your party as anything other than the disgust of an independent man.

  • craig pond

    James,
    we know your post is a lie, everybody knows you can’t think.

  • James

    Sticks and stones Craig, that’s all can I say, but at least I’m not the one cashing giros.

  • Plane Jane

    Calm down, Craig,

    I’m not actually a member of the Labour Party.

    I post comments against the BNP not out of loyalty to anoher party but because the BNP’s racist policies would “repatriate” friends of mine who have lived and worked in the UK, doing vital work in the NHS and MoD for decades, and regard their mixed-race children as threats to some notional “British genotype”.

    I don’t buy the “voluntary” bit of your – sorry, their – repatriation policy either, since you – sorry, they – would dismantle all the legislation that prevents discrimination against non-white people, so it would become legal to discriminate against them in work and the provision of public services, to the point where even people happily settled here could well feel forced to leave.

    You won’t agree, but in my book that makes the BNP Nazi scum.

  • craig pond

    There’s a rapidly increasing number of able bodied workers that can’t find work James, if you know of somewhere looking for a knackered old cripple let me know, I’d be more than happy to go for it.

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    no actually Craig has a point about Browns wasted years and actually sums it up quite elegantly, i fear if he was still in teh BNP the post may have been more rantish… (another word i just made up ) In fact there is much of what Craig is saying their that is bang on right, the gold reserves, the pension fund raid and the meddling with the regulatory powers of the BoE…..Craig you been peeking at our latest literature and campaign material? :-)

  • craig pond

    I’m just getting used to unfettered posting!
    I target what I want, when I want, how I want. It’s a heady mix David, though I do find it to my liking!

  • Nita

    James, comment #29 no need for that is there.

  • craig pond

    Thank you Nita.
    Don’t worry, comments like that mean I’m hitting the target, or he’d be on my back for getting it wrong as far as his Labour buddies go.

  • http://www.pitsnpots.co.uk Tony

    James,
    I was going to remove post #29, but then I thought stuff it! Who am I to stop you making yourself look a prat!
    I can confirm that Craig is indeed a knackered old cripple but at least he has a brain, which seems to be one up on you!

    For the record I am not a BNP sympathiser!

  • DANIEL STOKES

    Plane Jane, what are you rabbiting on about now.
    Labour are the left wing of politics, and are mostly communists, honestly tour ignorance of politics is astounding, and your childish rants at the BNP are unbelievable.
    You say that the BNP would dismantle legislation on discrimination, does that mean positive discrimination that is operated by the Labour party?
    James, you also have shown yourself to be infantile with your remarks at Craig, and it was not so long ago you were boasting that your are in a higher tax bracket.
    Just showing that money does not equal common sense in your case.
    To make pathetic comments about a mans disability is showing your intelligence sits on a lower scale than that of other people.

  • craig pond

    Water off a ducks back chaps, but thanks for the support. People like James have no answers to the questions we put and the statements we make, and like the Labour party do, he attacks in any other way that is open to him.
    B*llocks to him.

  • craig pond

    Plane Jane.
    I’m going to paste a web address for a newspaper page(not my description), and I want you to look at it and absorb what this will mean for the UK.

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/71440/Flood-of-5m-new-migrants-on-way/

    Some of the poorer countries of Europe are collapsing under the strain of this recession, and this is their answer to it, invade our country and collapse our system.
    Brown will no doubt sit back and let it happen.

  • Gary Elsby

    Craig, you make some reasoned assertions (23#)of Labour incompetences but I fail to see why or where we landed in the gutter because of them. I take it that you believe he made those decisions as Chancellor for the hell of it and has no care of the consequences?

    Much has been written of Gordon’s sale of a pittance of our Gold reserves and like most people who know this saturday’s six winning numbers, you nail him for selling early.

    The reason for the sale was to buy Euros and to diversify our foreign exchange and that act has now been accomplished. Incidentally, the loss is not as great as some would assume due to the parity of the £/Euro and Gordon can’t be howled down for all eternity.

    The raid on the pension funds gave Gordon Billions and he’s invested it into our Health and Education along with winter fuel allowances. This was the free money that the Tories gave to those seeking to move into private provision.

    I think you rant on but I have to ask you for proof of ‘illegal wars’ as I cannot find any. I think the whole world is fighting with us in Afghanistan so I’ll concentrate on Iraq.

    UN resolutions; 678, 687 and 1441(“using all means possible”) follow on and if you track them, you’ll find that the UN Security Council had every right to launch an invasion after multiple threats by them to do so.
    I think you may go on about the French or Chinese being upset about it all but considering your claim is of illegality, then I think you should provide the proof that backs those Countries up.

    You can’t because it doesn’t exist and therfore is legal.

    You carry on ranting about everything but the one aspect of your raving concerns me.

    You say you can go on about ‘social policy’ so please do.

    As a confirmed Socialist (not a communist or moonie) I consider this Governments social policy to be near flawless and considering you believe that the bnp speak for all people everywhere, I invite you once again to pop my balloon.

    You just can’t, Craig because I am a volunteer and no one forces me to believe that single mums, pensioners or hard up working families don’t deserve a fair crack at this MEGA rich Country’s wealth via redistribution.

    The bnp or ‘independent Nazis’ can’t hold a candle to working class policies that work for the working classes.

    Eat your heart out Craig.

  • http://Warren Watching Elsby.

    I have heard it all now ‘I consider this Governments social policy to be near flawless.’ Garry, explane to me who made the pensioners so poor or the hard up working families of this country so hard up, the party that as been in power for the last 12 years, yours.

  • craig pond

    Gary,
    try and understand what I’m saying.

    You’re right, Gordon the moron did sell our gold to buy eurobonds, and not long after he bought them they were worth less than the gold he used to buy them. They must be almost valueless now.

    The raid on the pension fund was inexcusable! Gordon Brown had no right to destroy the retirement of anyone, let alone tens of thousands of people who had worked a lifetime in order to be able to enjoy their retirement in financial security! A lifetimes effort stolen away by a man who is unelected to the position he holds!

    What’s this bullsh*t about UN security? Blair went ahead without the agreement of the UN because George told him to. This was why it took so long to try and get others involved.

    You want to know how your governments policies saw you in the gutter?
    How about Lord Levy doing Blairs bidding in order to get sponsors for his academy push? How about altering the dossier that reported on the situation in Iraq? How about first hanging Dr David Kelly out as the patsy over Iraq, then having him assassinated to put an end to the speculation?
    How about Blair slapping a d-notice on the press concerning Operation Ore, and its closing in to arrest
    numerous LABOUR GOVERNMENT MINISTERS? Take a look back at who was in the cabinet back then and who suddenly got moved.

    You talk about single mums, but the favouring of single parents has been at the expense of family unity. Labour have destroyed the idea of family, marriage, committment!
    Pensioners!! I don’t know how you’ve got the bloody neck
    to try and suggest you’ve done anything for our pensioners but hurt them! You’ve closed the care homes,
    closed their bowling greens, taken away the mobile library, and filled the streets with feral kids. Oh yes Gary, you and the other morons have done a fine job in
    looking after our pensioners!

    You’re right about one thing. Not the BNP or the
    independents can hold a candle to the policies you lunatics have pressganged on the public. To find those that can, you need to be looking at Josef Stalin, Marx,
    Adolphe Hitler, these are the people whose ideologies reflect the policies of the present Labour government.
    I hope you’re proud of your association with these thieves and traitors, don’t trumpet it too loud though, with the poorer countries of europe on the edge of collapse, they are promising to head here. That will cause our system to collapse, then you’d better watch out for the inevitable backlash that will come against this current regime.

  • Gary Elsby

    I can’t see one single angle of your arguments that have any grounds.

    The UN Security Council VOTED UNANIMOUSLY for action but once Bush/Blair actually agreed that the Iraq Dictatorship was in breach of that (1441) resolution, they asked for a SECOND vote.

    There is no basis in International law for a second vote.

    As a precursor to invasion, the Labour/Blair Government agreed the unprecedented move for MPs to vote Yes or No to invasion.

    The result was?

    Pensioners: You can’t back up the absurd claims you make of pensioner poverty as their is no abdolute poverty in Britain regarding Pesioners or children. Relative poverty is in the eye of the beholder and Labour introduced Pensioner tax credits to target the vulnerable. Fuel poverty is directed across the board. Child tax credits allieviate child poverty but our standards are higher than that achieved so far and will be dealt with post 2010 General Election.

    Your understanding of the value of our new nest egg Euro portfolio, which is a requirement of all modern Governments, seems not to give it any value at all.
    How much would it now cost to buy those Euros today?
    What use a pile of metal in a vault?

    You make a serious allegation regarding the murder of a man who confessed to getting it wrong. You name his murderers and you put your name to that. Is there any chance you can walk into Hanley Police Station and speak to the desk Sergeant about this crime? Tell him Gary sent you.

    Care Homes: Yes some have been shut and one was shut as I put leaflets through the next door.
    But do you not concede that new ones are being opened up by big bad Labour?

    Concede defeat, Craig. You are beaten.

  • craig pond

    Gary,
    you are the most delusional person I’ve ever
    confronted. Your ability to distort the truth and shape it to your own ends knows no bounds, and you can convince yourself that Labour are the saviours of this country, but the vast majority would argue against you. Come the next general election, we’ll see who read the situation correctly.

  • Biggles

    Gary, I’ve always been a floating voter, and I confess to having voted for Labour in the past, but listening to you is rapidly turning me away from Labour. That doesn’t mean for a second that I’d consider the BNP but you’re not helping your cause one little bit.

    Problem is, as the faces of the Tories and LibDems on this site neither Shaun nor David inspire much coinfidence either.

  • terry turbo

    Gary, your answers border on the insane as they are nothing but excuses for a failed (in every way) Government.
    We have become the dustbin of the world and its all down to Labours rediculous immigration policy.
    We now have terrorist’s (we evenen import known ones) murderers, paedophiles, and mafia type criminals in our midst, due to Labours policy’s.
    Labour have connived, lied, and misslead the people of this country to suit themselves.

  • http://www.stokenorthlibdems.com david jack

    Biggles, this is the nail on the head, whilst things maybe more than pear shaped because of labours arrogance, the Tories offer nothing new and the LIb Dems need to pick up the pace on a range of issues and not just publish their good key notes sucha s the war on iraq and the current financial markets. We need to hammer home all of the other things that go on in the world too.

    The time to impress though is some time away yet i fear as Brown would be sucidal to go for an election any time in the next 12 months.

    Meantime we have PitsnPots to let of ‘standby steam’ and more importantly to listen to what the people of Stoke want from their aspiring politicians of the future.

    Anyways, all work makes Jack a dull lad…. sometimes you just have to let your hair down and get stuck into the debates and have a bit of fun.

  • terry turbo

    Biggles, a hell of a post about waste management, realy got into it.
    Me, Craig, and Sam have been working on a similar thing for a good while, and plan on putting it before the council.
    We believe that your input would be very helpfull to this proposal, and if you agree we would like to disscuss it with you.
    We also believe their are people in this city who have a better grasp on its problems than some of our councillors.
    We are forming a seperate Independant group, of forward thinking people to put forward viable policy proposals to take this City into the 21st century, for the betterment of all.
    If you are interested let us know and we will meet and discuss this.

  • craig pond

    Terry,
    you should see if Ian Norris is interested too, he
    likes his compost.

  • terry turbo

    Will do, Ian if you are interested, please let me know, and we will arrange a meeting.

  • Rob Heath

    I’m quite independent asin from all political parties, but i quite like the idea of a multicultural city so would I be welcome in your new Independence party? Or would it be for Independents who hate non white or non “British” people? Only curious……

  • craig pond

    I wouldn’t want a multicultural city, don’t know about the others, we haven’t got together yet.
    Multiculturalism, far from bringing communities closer together, seems to be emphasising their differences.
    Like I say, this is only my opinion.

  • Gary Elsby

    Biggles, I tend not to read you and Waren and I have little interest in your voting intentions, now or in the future. It doesn’t surprise me though that you read my every word and analyse it in the process.Most people do.

    Craig and Terry, I have presented you with the facts.

    Not my facts, just the historical facts of each matter that concerns you.

    If you disbelieve those facts, then it is not me that you disbelieve it is the facts as recorded.

    Remember, we have already won a General Election with the Iraq war in full flow.

    The accusations of incompetence of the Chancellor, now PM, is for opposition politicians to sell to their respective audiences. I say he has not committed any act of incompetence and has delivered a fairer Britain based on the ability to pay.

    The bnp and right wing zealots have nothing in their bag to offer to a public in the next 12 Months in the run up to the General Election.

    We have and we will exploit that goodwill and highlight the misery which the bnp wish upon that same public for their own political ends.

    Give up now before it’s too late.

  • ian norris

    LOL … Gary thats EXACTLY where Labour going wrong by ignoring views of people like Biggles and Warren that both have VERY interesting informed ideas, me id vote for biggles and warren

  • ian norris

    As for Craig original post which most seem to have ignored, his debate on 2 different types of Cllrs is spot on some are good ward Cllrs were as others more at home at Policy level.

    Take Roger Ibbs he risks losing his seat by being a policy cllr and doing what he believes best for THE WHOLE city (not saying his correct) and others work in ward doing bingo, lunches etc.. being a good ward Cllr obviously leads to more votes come next election, where as Policy can upset some voters.

    But we need both types, until we get more communities fully involved with actively helping manage their communities

  • Nicky

    Just catching up, this was a very interesting development in the bnp. We’ve been aware of rifts in labour and tories for a while but now we find rifts in the bnp too. Quite big ones to lose branch secretary / policy chair.

    I agree that policy and ward representation are both very important. As voters we need to know policy to help us decide who to vote for. An interesting one to think about as policy is very important an interesting and is a major reason to come on this site and have debates on issues. But ward representation is crucial and if push comes to shove I think it needs to take presidence. The core issue there is democracy.

    It made me think, what would I do if I were a councillor and the ward residents strongly wanted my help in something I didn’t agree with policy wise. Well the first thing would be discussion and putting my view and listening to theirs and making sure all the information was there. But if they still persisted I think that representation would have to come first. So it would be my duty to represent their views. I could think of very few extreme cases where this would be impossible. But I think in the end if the residents views and the councillors views remained opposed and so strongly that the councillor did not feel able to represent the residents, then the councillor would be better standing down than being dictatorial.

    This is actually what Roger Ibbs should have done ages ago and should do now – stand down completely.

  • Gary Elsby

    Sorry, Ian, it wasn’t Labour ignoring Waren or bigles, it was me ignoring them.

    I’m not a spokesman for Labour and if Labour ignore them, that’s up to them.

    I ignore them, I ignore their views and I commend Labour to do also.

    Gary

  • Tunstall Dave

    Is this true? I have just read this breaking news story on the Sentinel..

    Pits n pots writing tomorrows news yesterday