Stoke on Newsnight Part 1

Paul Mason the BBC economics reporter did an item tonight in which Stoke received prominence. In the weeks before a General Election Mason has been touring Britain looking at the economic state of the country before we go to the polls.

The section on Stoke looked at the negatives and featured an interview with a woman Wendy Johnson who had lost jobs at Cartwright and Edwards’s potbank, Wedgwood, Creda and eventually Remploy. As Mason remarked her employment history covered the old industry like Pottery and the newer industries that were an attempt to diversify the economy after the war where she made spin dryers. But ultimately all had failed.

Mason then was in a boxing club in Bentilee talking to local youths who certainly had hope and energy and spoke of the good people who lived in the City. He produced a baleful list of statistics on teenage pregnancy, ill health and mortality statistics that illustrated the difficulties the area had in adjusting to a post-industrial world. The camera panned over aerial shots of derelict land and abandoned factories. He looked at the old site of the Staffordshire Pottery at Meir lamenting that the future must surely include “something more than supermarkets and retail warehouses”.

Mason was then on a canal barge in Middleport. He remarked how Stoke was at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and the role of canals were the Internet of their day, offering communication channels and the means to transport goods quickly to the ports. He conversed with the Tory Social commentator Philip Blond how the 18th century had in place factors that lead to places like Stoke being a success. Such factors such as the de-centralisation of capital, the free flow of labour, greater mobility and the penetration of ideas through the growth of journals

Blond believed that we now had a sclerotic system with capital and power centralised although he conceded that access to information was far greater than the 18th century. The helicopter flew over moorland with Mason offering the view that the future must include developing a low carbon economy although in a landscape of wind farms its sobering to realise that there is no British manufacturer of wind turbines. He also believed that the future economy must be better geared to making things rather than the financial industry.

I believe that Mason is right. We should be looking at developing local entrepreneurs, or at least making it an attractive prospect for people with ideas to move to the area. Places like Stoke should not turn their back on manufacturing but instead embrace it and seek to build a future where industry and “making things” still played a key role. But this would be an industrial city based on smaller scale speciality and craft manufacturing,

Tomorrow Mason looks at signs of hope in the Stoke economy and the role that women are playing in the revival of the pottery industry.

Have Your Say

  • webby

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00rth0x/Newsnight_29_03_2010/

    iplayer is broken, so I can’t have a look, will try again later.

    Thanks for the heads up.

  • Warren Lloyd

    iplayer is back up webby. Just viewed the Mason footage, and it makes pretty depressing viewing. The local figures told paints a very dim picture of the city. Teenage pregnancies 50% higher then average, 1 in 11 babies born underweight, local male life expectancy 3 years lower then the rest of the country.

    But what has this to do with the prospects for the area, not the first thing. What it shows is a total lack of education in this area for years. Its never changed, the only thing some were told at school was ‘your thick, but never mind, you don’t need brains to work on the pots or go down the pit.’

    Even if you showed some drive, you were told you would be better off going into the local industries anyway, be hear for ever, shows how much they knew.

    Local problems I think as a lot to do with a p*** poor local education system, tell a kid its thick, what do you get, thick adults who go round making underweight babies at a early age, drink to much, smoke to much and drop down stone dead before their time.

    Never mind, look on the bright side, we could be with the nutcases on Margate Beach, blaming there misgivings on others.

  • Bill Cawley

    I thought that there were signs of hope. Certainly the youths in the boxing club sounded positive and a few were talking about University.

    I have just had a meeting with my business idea and we talked about the programme. he agreed with me, and he is in a position to know, that there is no shortage of entrepreneurial spirit in the area

  • Pat Cow

    Warren – you are 100% right.

    the problems can be traced back at least 25 years. its all about education.

    the problem now is that the clowns in the council in charge of regeneration seem more interested in giving out lucrative consultancy contracts to their mates than making any kind of difference..

    “heads must roll”……who am i kidding…

  • Warren Lloyd

    Pat, it goes back a lot more then 25 years, people left school and into a life in the colemines or the potbanks with no back up if something went bellie up with these industres in the 60s, 70s, 80s. The lady in the report proved it, look at her work record. The pots and Creda, redundent god only knows how many times, it was all she know, the same podouction line work all the time. I’m not knocking her, she worked damed hard and tryed her best, but it was inbread hear, don’t adapet.
    Bill, yes the youngsters did sound upbeat, reason, education, they were educated, had there time at Uni, could turn there hand to things, use what god give them, a brain. Its a pitty there are not more like them. The problem is, and them figgers prove it, the education system in this city is part of the problem. Hopefully it is changeing, but at the moment it fails, as its not meeting its users needs, is in no way putting young kids in the job market, or even given them a chance, its not the world of the local industry now, its a world of hand out and haveing kids to young, reason being, they know very little more.

  • Bill Cawley

    From Brown to Green to Gold

    What to do with the derelict land in the City

    I was driving past my old school at Carmountside. The school was closed in the mid 80s and the site demolished a few years later. The last part of the school was the Youth and Adult Centre, which was pulled down a decade ago. In a very short time the area has returned to meadow and woodland and the area green where once it was concrete and cement. It has taken less than 30 years to obliterate any trace of the High School that had existed from 1938 to 1985. The power of nature to reclaim the landscape was very evident.

    It got me thinking and I have been aware that in recent months I have been negative about developments in the City Council and the lack of progress on a number of key projects such as the Bus Station. I have resolved to try to put forward a positive idea that I hope will be received in the spirit it is sent out.

    I have previously expressed an interest in addressing one of the main problems facing the City that of the high level of derelict land. Brown field and other empty sites is a prominent feature of the Stoke on Trent landscape. Can any urban area have as bad an entrance as Stoke does for travellers arriving at Stoke station from the North? The wastelands around Etruria and Cliffe Vale are a main source of embarrassment and I am mortified that for the stranger this is the first impression that they will have of the City.

    I believe or at least hope that brown could be turned to green and ultimately gold. In short we should be looking to use derelict land to grow biofuel/ biomass crops. Can it be done? I think that at the very least it ought to be investigated. There are signs that other areas in the country are looking in this way to unlock the potential of former industrial land. Teeside University is seriously looking at ways in which areas around Middlesborough can be turned into profitable use. Last month the Teeside project won an award following evidence that grasses can be grown on derelict sites that has good biofuel potential

    Likewise in the States to quote from one site

    “The rapid growth of the biofuels industry is good news for many farmers, but using land to grow crops for fuel, rather than food has raised public concern about the impact on food prices in the United States and beyond. So what if farmers started growing oilseed crops such as soybeans, sunflower and canola, and ethanol crops such as corn, on land that isn’t suitable for growing food?

    Michigan State University professor Kurt Thelen is experimenting to find out whether such crops can thrive in previously contaminated soil. Even more, Thelan’s group is testing whether or not the plants can actually assist in site clean-up by taking in contaminants from the soil, a process known as phyto-remediation [see "Blue skies ahead for phytoscience," SIJ, March 2003].

    Funded by DaimlerChrysler (NYSE: DCX), NextEnergy, a Detroitbased non-profit that supports energy technology development, and the university, Thelan’s group last summer planted a two-acre plot of oilseed crops, corn and ethanol on a 120-acre former Superfund site in the greater Detroit area.

    “Yieldwise, we had a very good year,” Thelan says. “And we don’t expect to find contamination “” the remediation work was done years ago. But we know that just by having plants, we are increasing the microbial activity in the soil, and that has some bioremediation effects.”

    When I attended a Green Energy conference last February at Staffs University I mentioned this as a possibility and my comments were well received. I was in contact with a number of organisations who were keen to explore the potential of using the brownfield sites of Stoke for some useful purpose.

    There are obviously a number of positives that could derive from this

    1. Creating employment opportunities in the City
    2. Cleaning and turning to good use previously redundant land
    3. Reducing good agricultural land usage for biofuel use

    I believe that this has real potential and have been in contact with Dr Bridges who expressed an interest. I am keen myself to support this agenda.

  • Ian Norris

    Bill have you read the “IN-VESSEL COMPOSTING STRATEGY” by Ancer Spa produced in 2009 for the City Council

    http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/questions_regarding_enhanced_rec#incoming-158531

  • Ian Norris

    oh ignore referrence to Excelsior works that site option was removed from Budget proposals in January this year for some reason even tho it was the prefferred site

  • tonyjohnt

    New moderation policy notwithstanding – what bullshit! If you want to be an academic write a book. Websites are txtng for oldies.

    Some middle-class, London based reporter has to tell us about Stoke? I haven’t seen Newsnight, but I’ll catch it on iplayer.

    Ever lived on Bentilee Bill? If you have, I bet it was the worst weekend of your life. “… a boxing club in Bentilee”. There’s nowt better than being beaten and robbed by someone who’s trained. Get this : there are computer courses available too! The estate invented free-cycle for furniture almost 20 years before the web.

    Stay in Leek, you sound much more convincing. Bentilee and Abbey folk (I’m a Carmount alumni too) have been given FA for so long they expect FA. Still, they have intellectuals, both evil and well meaning to sort it and look after their interests. No need to trouble their simple minds.

  • Bill Cawley

    Any positive ideas to try to sort out the City, Tony?

  • Bill Cawley

    Beside why should they be attempting this in Middlesborough ( where presumably they have boxing clubs) and not in Stoke?

  • terry turbo

    The brown land on the entrance to Stoke is owned by St Modwen is it not, and I’m quite sure the reason they have left it looking like a bomb site, is they are holding on to it for profit, and don’t give a damn, as with other sites around theis city.
    While I agree that we could use unused brownfield sites for Bio crops, there is another more pressing need.
    The EU for a long time have been paying our Farmers to leave land fallow, and the Farmers have been only too willing, saving on labour, fuel,and time planting food crops.
    While land has being bought up all over the city by people like St Modwen surely whats left (owned by the council)can be made profitable as allotments or rented out for growing by groups,or is this beyond their range of thinking?
    We are staring at a food shortage as prices rocket so this makes common sense to me, or am I wrong.

  • tonyjohnt

    Stop pulling down the fabric!

    I believe you’ve said as much yourself before now Bill. Find alternative uses for buildings instead of demolishing them to make way for pipe dreams. Rent-free workshops for prospective entrepreneurs who currently languish on the dole. Positive enough?

    Trust people. Invest in people. Sweep away regulations and restrictions. If the country, let alone the city, is truly in such a perilous condition it’s surely time to give the little guy some room?

    Don’t be silly Tony… trust people?… don’t interfere in their lives?… micro economics, shutting out the big corporations?

    Our leaders are so reminiscent of Hitler, admiring models with Albert Speer as Berlin lies in ruins. I’m sure many people are with me when I say I’m sick of seeing artists’ impressions of Stoke.

    How many local people have dreams of doing something to utilise their skills, but don’t have the room? How much floor space have we lost in the past decade?

  • terry turbo

    Trust people. Invest in people. Sweep away regulations and restrictions. If the country, let alone the city, is truly in such a perilous condition it’s surely time to give the little guy some room?

    Tonyjohnt, an excellant idea that works in other areas.
    Unfortunately we have no one that can think beyond dinner time in this city.
    What was that joke that they used to brag about?
    Oh yeah “putting people first” only not the people of this city.

  • OWD POTTER

    TONY, I have to agree with you ‘our kid’, and with Warren,
    As you know, I am also a Carmountside ‘product’ kicked out of the gates in 1968, (aged 15) with only a length (swimming) certificate to show for my 4 year stay, Having been deemed too ‘thick’ to even be given the chance to be educated to ‘A’ or ‘O’ level standards,

    BUT it was “ok” there were pits, pots, and a big steelworks for the ‘likes of me’ (and I have worked in all 3,)
    From 1968 to 1979, I had never been unemployed and had worked in the pits,(gone) done a couple of years as an apprentice at Goughs in Clough street (gone) and worked twice at Shelton Bar (gone)

    and then THATCHER (B.I H) happened, by then I was working as a ‘decorator’ in the pots,
    Under the bitch I was made redundant more times than I can remember, as pot bank after pot bank stabbed their workforce in the back and moved their production abroad in the pursuit of greed and more profit (many had full order books)

    I moved out of the city to find work (got on my bike) first to Scotland, where I was made redundant again (production moved abroad) and then to the Irish republic for 5 years,

    I returned to Stoke in 2006, where I asked the dole about the “help” available for those wishing to become self employed, I was told that in order to ‘qualify’ for the “help” I would have to be unemployed for 2 years!!
    So I took only short term contract jobs (less than 12 weeks) in order to keep my unemployed ‘status’
    and what was this “help”? a 8 week, one evening a week course (I got a whole extra tenner a week dole for the duration)
    followed by 6 months of being able to claim my dole while I ‘set up’ my business, NO grant, no financial help at all (after 2 years on the dole)
    No help with finding a workshop to work from, despite dozens of factories standing empty, and not being allowed to put up a workshop in my own yard,

    I finally had to leave Stoke and move up here to the north east, in order to start my own POTTERY painting business,

    All this BS and ‘red tape’ needs sweeping away, Whats needed is REAL help for ‘entrepeneurs’ open up some of the unused factories, start some ‘real’ training schemes, there are thousands of people like me in Stoke, people with skills, experience, ideas, enthusiasm, dreams even, ALL sitting on the dole, because no one will back them or give them a chance,
    it is a huge and scandalous waste of resources, Far greater than the money spent on keeping the (so called) “scroungers” on benefits,

  • tonyjohnt

    We really must stop beating ourselves up about our carbon footprint. We’re insignificant in the scheme of things. China builds 100 new coal fired power stations every year. Must we condemn our grandkids to penury, for some half-baked, middle-class ethic?

    I can make silicon moulds and cast in resin. Link me up with a sculptor and a painter… voila´ – an enterprise.

    Such an embryonic business wouldn’t even require vacant factory space. Any one of these pre-war terraces our betters are hell-bent on demolishing would do. The dinner party set would no doubt scoff at a cottage industry led renaissance, but cottage industries built this nation and they had nowt to do with the state we’re in.

    I dunno, I sometimes lack confidence amongst the graduates armed only with my rudimentary Carmountside education, but it seems to me the pristine CV, formally educated lot are driving us over a cliff.

    You have nothing to lose but your chains.

  • Ian Norris

    Burslem has cheap craft workshops available for £50 a week, not bad is it?

  • tonyjohnt

    Not bad Ian, but free rent for 12 months and advice from redundant book-keepers and accountants would be better.

    For sure some would fail matey. Not all though eh?

    Truth is, if it ain’t Burger King or Sony or Tesco forget it. We don’t live in the age of Del Boy Trotter. Making your own way is shifting from the eccentric to the criminal.

    Nineteen-Eighty Four is often invoked on here… oh, how I wish more of you had read it instead of merely knowing of it.

    We could all do what we want to. I don’t want to be a great big movie star. Clearing up the mess this consumer society creates would do me, for a living wage. Cameron wants that to be punitive though.

  • tonyjohnt

    Here’s me, thinking I’m a ranting alcoholic – because that’s what I’m told – and up pops Rowan Williams!

    The Arch Bishop of Canterbury also believes this coalition have no mandate for the radical right wing programme they’re steam-rolling through. Which they couldn’t without Satan’s little helpers (I’m looking at YOU Lib Dems).

    Is he a sad lonely drunk, who spends way too much time playing Call of Duty?

    Oops… more ammunition for Mikefire!

  • Ian Norris

    Depending on size of collective nothing stop you form squat workshops

  • tonyjohnt

    Nothing stopping you except the Law, with their batons, shields, mace spray, dogs, tazers, helicopters…

    What’s wrong with you today, Ian?

    Stop talking like a rebellious adolescent and suggest something half-way viable.

  • Gary Elsby

    The technical argument would suggest that Rowan Williams is wrong.
    The Government of the day, accepted by the Queen, can do anything it wants to.
    In a coalition, two (or three+) parties argue the toss behind closed doors before delivering an agenda.

    Labour copped out of the lead and went for an Internal Leadership contest instead.
    So no lessons of morality from Labour thanks.

    Fair enough, a coalition that did not know of a coalition before-hand is on dodgy ground and so Rowna Williams’ argument scores a few points, but not many.

    A listening Government that shows it listens by altering course is a U-turning Government by the losers (runaways in Labour).

    Personally, I’m struggling to land a blow against Cameron’s coalition as everything it seems to be doing is quite reasonable.
    Maybe this is an argument ‘for’ coalitions in National Government.

    It will be very interesting to see Cameron’s Election agenda for 2015.
    If he drops in the retirement plans with no means testing, then I see a fully elected Conservative Government at the election.

    Miliband is starting to drag up the old chestnut of elderly care (again) but only touches a nerve.
    Why?
    Because he is not saying what we want to hear and we want to hear of a long-term plan for a Universal service not based on ability to pay.
    (as I wrote in my own manifesto).

    Miliband should stop playing games and politics and start to reach out from the heart.

    My belief is that anything is achieveable in politics and this is a very rich Country, regardless of what the doom merchants say.

    In 24 hours (if that) I could write out a national care Plan for the elderly and prove it be costed and therefore viable.
    So ask yourselves why the great and the good can’t.

  • tonyjohnt

    Another opportunity grasped to knock Labour, Gary?

    Rowan Williams raises a good point – this Government has no mandate. If, as they constantly say, it is some ‘coalition of convenience’ formed in the national interest – why are there no Labout MPs in the Cabinet? Do these people really care about democracy, millions voted Labour

    Don’t take me by the backdoor and expect me to laugh about it.

  • Ian Norris

    just suggesting if the desire was there for free space it could be taken as in other cities. I just dont see the numbers being here in stoke to keep ball rolling once its started.

    If want to attempt it through the system would take longer much much longer and again lose momentum and fail.

    But as RENEW is no more and bought up a lot of land and buildings that need disposing of, nothing stopping a small community enterpirse making a bid for these spaces, a row of self refurbed terraced homes both living and workspaces could be viable?

  • tonyjohnt

    Might be repeating myself because of this new mod policy – which is making me seriously consider quitting.

    If you’re finding it hard to land a blow against Cameron Gary, maybe you never belonged in Labour anyway. Goodbye & good luck!