The BNP will be rolling back into town again on Sunday with the launch of their English Manifesto. This time, Longton hosts the launch. It will be interesting to see if support for the BNP is as diminished as it was in last May’s elections, or whether they have done enough to regroup and revive this time around.
I have never been a fan of the BNP. Being of mixed race myself, I have always been suspicious of their motives. Being accosted by National Front Skinheads as a boy will certainly make you suspicious, if not angry and fearful. However, since working on PnP I have tried to put my personal prejudices aside and report on what I see, as opposed to what I might be feeling due to external influence.
Having met the BNP senior leadership last year, I’d at least had the opportunity to talk and interact with them in a normal way, without having my judgement swayed by what I’d read in the papers.
I really don’t know what the BNP would do to people like me, if they were to ever gain power in a general election. They say that there would be no forced repatriation. They do however say, that ethnic minorities would be offered money to leave the country. Both Nick Griffin and Simon Darby were at pains to point out that this was an old Labour Policy. No one from Labour ever came round to my house asking me to leave and waving a one way ticket to Barbados though.
I ‘ve heard from multiple sources that Stoke BNP has some good councillors. I have also heard that they have got some or had some pretty useless ones too. The results last may showed that the BNP were losing popularity within the city. However, The recession has really begun to bite now, and I’m sure the BNP will be really looking to capitalise on that fact.
Some of the noises the BNP have been making abut Mosques worry me. If an immigrant comes to this country legally, and he/she is a Muslim, then I have no issue with them whatsoever in letting them use their money to purchase buildings to be used as Mosques. So long as there is adequate parking and facilities and that all the proper planning procedures have been followed. Like many though I do have reservations about the addition of Domes and Minarets being added. I’m a Derbyshire lad and grew up in an area where the planning laws were very strict. Driving around Stoke-on-Trent I’m regularly surprised with some of the building alterations that have been allowed. I personally think that Domes and Minarets would change the character of the town. I’ve seen them in Birmingham, and very pretty they are too but im my mind they look out of place because this is Britain. It should be noted though that Britain has many Sikh temples, with Domes and I haven’t heard the BNP moaning about those, the opposite in-fact, regularly claiming Sikhs as allies.
Of course Britain is changing all the time and always has been so perhaps I’m behind step in my thinking? I would challenge any unusual building project though not just ones pertaining to religious buildings.
There will be many who say that they are shocked by my article, and some will say I’m even defending the BNP. I say that they are a political party, a legal party. If we want to be fair, and to live in a fair society then we must allow them to speak. If we don’t like what they say then we all have the option of not voting for them.
That’s why I’m writing this blog, and it’s the same reason I wrote the blog post “The day I met the BNP” . Because I don’t approve of the constant lampooning the mainstream press give the BNP. Last May, the mainstream press pushed past PNP to get at the BNP, yet not a one of the broadsheets or tabloids wrote anything worthy of reading when it came to the policy. That’s just pathetic. If the owners of the papers want to work against the BNP then the fairest way would be to write independent articles that detail policy and lay out their argument against it allowing the public to make up their mind.
Nick Griffin told us that the Press had been involved in smear campaign against the BNP, I’d read that before and didn’t believe it really. Until I read the papers the next day. PitsnPots were the only media outlet that told it as it was. the papers just made daft jokes about the bloke dressed as St George.
When I met with Councillor Steven Batkin last year, regarding the Nazi Salute Photo, he was a pleasant and polite man, we treated each other with dignity. Some of his rhetoric was, in my opinion, incorrect and distasteful, but I allowed him to speak and he allowed me to publish.
Politics has become muddied by spin in the last decade. We need to hear all voices and clearly. Let the people decide what they think of the BNP. Regardless of whether the British National Party are cast aside, or increase their seats, I think politics in Britain will be improved for the greater transparency. One could be forgiven for thinking that the larger parties don’t want any more transparency for the BNP, because it will, sooner or later be demanded of them also.
“I have never been a fan of the BNP. Being of mixed race myself.”
I’m mix raced too and vote BNP. IMHO their policies are common sense.
The BNP say –
“We want Britain to remain ““ or return to ““ the way it has traditionally been. We accept that Britain always will have ethnic minorities and have no problem with this as long as they remain minorities and do not change nor seek to change the fundamental culture and identity of the indigenous peoples of the British Isles.”
How can we return to the identity of the indigenous peoples in the 21st Century?
Are we going to turn computers off and stop eating processed food so we can rekindle our indigenous identities?
Sounds like words disguising ‘let’s go back to being all white’ to me…
But maybe that’s because I’m 18 so have grown up with the media ‘lampooning’ the BNP.
Guest, if you think the BNP’s policies are common sense it just goes to show you completely lack any.
Tideswellman, There will be many who say that they are shocked by my article, and some will say I’m even defending the BNP. I say that they are a political party, a legal party. If we want to be fair, and to live in a fair society then we must allow them to speak. If we don’t like what they say then we all have the option of not voting for them.
No you debate rather than slag off.
You reason where others will not.
You Listen instead of closing your ears.
Thats the differance.
I have always found you to be open to debate without pre-concieved media hype installed into your head.
Good well balanced article Tides.
Wellcome back mate.
Being mixed race is a funny old one because many people who are of dual heritage tend to identify with either their black side or their white.
For that reason I do worry about the BNP’s real intentions. I remember that the BNP was formed from the NF. I also remember fleeing for my life and receiving abuse from NF boys lots of times in the 80′s.
I have always followed closely what the BNP have to say and I have collected their literature and articles over the years. It wasn’t pretty in the old days. These days they have toned it down a lot. However, I have also seen the video where Nick Griffin Tells kkk members that he is going to change the language of the BNP to increase their popularity. He doesn’t say that he’s going to change the ideology. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QolIvfQEw
That said, I still say that for those who wish to defeat the BNP, the best way is to hold their policy up for scrutiny instead of screaming heretic.
[quote=Tideswellman]Some of the noises the BNP have been making abut Mosques worry me. If an immigrant comes to this country legally, and he/she is a Muslim, then I have no issue with them whatsoever in letting them use their money to purchase buildings to be used as Mosques.[/quote]
Which totally ignores the ‘indigenous’ men and women who’ve chosen to convert to Islam, estimated now at around 100,000. I’d love to know how the far-right intends to deal with them or if they intend outlawing Islam despite claims that the UK believes in religious freedom.
[quote=Tideswellman]I personally think that Domes and Minarets would change the character of the town. I’ve seen them in Birmingham, and very pretty they are too but im my mind they look out of place because this is Britain. It should be noted though that Britain has many Sikh temples, with Domes and I haven’t heard the BNP moaning about those, the opposite in-fact, regularly claiming Sikhs as allies.[/quote]
Double standards methinks. It seems they only object to mosques as opposed to any other proposed building projects which is also indicative of blind hate. Architectural styles, as with many other manifestations of culture, like food and music are fluid and forever changing. The idea that it’s only just started happening is a right-wing conspiracy. Just compare buildings which are a couple of decades apart and it’s easy to see the difference. Foreign influences in designs can also be seen.
Let’s face it, the BNP have reached there high water mark, and with all the infighting and breakaway groups sprouting like EFP they’re never likely to gain any ground, even in a run down city like S-o-T. Good piece, well written.
They say that now….
…..but what about after polling day?
Now, some people round hear think I’ve got a problem with the BNP, in fact, I have not. they are a party that put forward a political viewpoint that is very different to what I think yes, but they should be allowed to make that point and enter into debate. I have no problem with that, I think I have the points to counteract and will put them across, or I would not be doing what I’m doing now. In fact what I’m doing now as very little to do with the BNP and more to do with my view of Stoke on Trent.
Like Phil, I had a problem with the NF-Combat 18 skin head thugs in my teens, twice infact, once when I had the utter nerve to say there ideas stank. The second one was standing up for my mate, who just happand to be from Uganda. It was not the leaders of the NF that gave me them beating, it was there supporters. The problems not with the leaders of any party, is it, its about the people they bring to that party. As soon as the likes of the BNP click onto this, and discourage this violent kind of support, witch we know they have, and don’t seem to discourage, the better it will be for them.
I’d rather see the BNP listened to more then see the rise of the ultra right crackpots of Pond and his EFP or heaven forbid the EDL, who lets face it are the offshoots of the BNP. The people who have got that sick even for the BNP.
Warren, I am a member of the BNP and would not agree to half the garbage that the BNP is accused off.
Voluntary repatriation is the classic one.
The word voluntary should give a clue.
There as never and never will be a policy to forcefully remove anyone but convicted foreign criminals and illegal aliens.
Also this policy as been carried out by both the two main party’s in recent years.
So I believe that to slag the BNP off for this is hypocritical.
Yes I believe in capital punishment, corporal punishment, an halt to immigration, and repatriation of all foreign illegals and criminals to their country of origin.
As a local party (just like the Lib/Lab/Con) they cannot change national policy’s.
Warren, the people (in the BNP) I met were neither violent or racist, just ordinary people.
None of them went out with weapons to hurt others, unlike a certain left wing (Lab/Con supported) violent group.
Tales of “The BNP will drop you out of airplanes over the sea”, or “remember what the Nazi’s did to the Jews” or some such garbage.
How can you possibly debate with such narrow minds as this.
When I put my involvement with Asians on my estate I was accused of making it up or being a hypocrite, even the “biggest racist in the city” by using someone else words. from people that did not even know me.
Tideswellman, I admire your article, but feel it will descend into the usual anti BNP diatribe that as become the norm for this site, but hey maybe I will be proved wrong?
David, that’s not what we want hear, we want debate, not insults.
There are reasons why people can not work. I know people will point to the likes of myself, who are sick and do work. The reason I can is because I was very lucky, the job I did and the hours I worked were easy to change to meet my needs. I don’t think to many jobs are like that. If you can’t do your job because of illness and that job can not be adapted or changed, guess what, your out of a job, and jobs are hard to come by now, more-so if your ill. So leave off Terry on that account please.
Dan and Sam, can not say for sure if they have jobs or not. Dan said he has, I don’t know the guy personally, but think he’s telling the truth on that one. Sam, don’t know, never took much notice of him, find his points a bit tiresome and hard to grasp.
As for Big Chef Painful Knees, yep! the DWP should be on his case and having more then a good look at his record of clamming DLA. That is in no way proof of a liking of the male genitalia is it.
Terry, you know what I mean mate, its not even members most of the time. Its just damned crazy people who are sick in the head using the premiss of your party to inflect there hearted on others. The BNP never go so far as to condemn their actions as it would mean loss of support.
And don’t even get my started on capital punishment. we all know a return to that would be out of the question. It would set back the justice system 200 years at least. As for illegal acts committed by them who are not supposed to be hear. It makes common sense to give them a one way ride home if we have the buggers bangs to right, or even if we did not and had them cornered. I also strongly agree that immigration should be looked at to. If people want to move to this country, there skills should be looked at, what they can offer the country and if we need them skills without our people losing out. We have hundreds of thousands as people needing jobs or training, they should come first and foremost. I’m against South Africans, Ozzy’s and Canadians coming hear and working in bars and restrants, its jobs taken up. That’s not raciest in the least, is it…….?
Warren,The BNP never go so far as to condemn their actions as it would mean loss of support.
The same “rules” are played by all the political party’s.
You only have to look at the violence committed by the UAF to see this.
If I knew of any BNP member that used violence in any form I would condemn them from the rooftops.
I am not saying that there are no bad element in the BNP as with any party we have, but slowly we are rooting them out.
We have debated the Capital punishment issue and agreed to disagree with each other.
Its called respect of each others views, and the right to have a different opinion without personal abuse.
The reason for abuse normally comes from inability to debate issues.
Terry don’t look my when talking about the UAF, or any other of the muddy boot and donkey jacket gangs. They rage on about human rights and freedoms, stopping anyone putting across differing views. This of-coarse impends others rights and freedoms. Never agreed with that.
Yes,I have been on marches, lots of them, will always stay within the law, do what the coppers ask of me, state my case and feelings and bugger off back home with blisters. I’ll openly condemn any body hell bent on making problems. Used right and its a good way to make a point, get a riot going on, its bad news all round. Its used against you.
I don’t mind the BNP coming to my home town, it don’t bother me, I’m not going to charge down there telling them to ‘do one’, I’v got better thinks to do with my time, like doing it how it should be done, a slip of paper, a pencil and a ballet box. You know something, I’m enjoying it.
Warren thats exactly what I am talking about.
With you its debate pure and simple.
Thats one of the reasons I wish you well in your election.
We need people that will put the city before political party’s.
With others its abuse, half truths,lies and foul language.
I think what you have written can be said to apply to accurately to all three main parties. No other party has ever had a chance to govern and unless the people are told the truth, they never will.
You have made an important point here Phil that pervades your article and is summed up very well in your last statement:
“One could be forgiven for thinking that the larger parties don’t want any more transparency for the BNP, because it will, sooner or later be demanded of them also.”
The major parties would like to be dismissive of any minor party or group by making simplistic and often incorrect jibes about them. They don’t want too much proper debate because they might be exposed themselves.
Labour have behaved most disgracefully in this city because they did not like the rise of popularity for independents and bnp. Instead of having an intelligent argument about policy and representing people they just brought in the big guns and shamefully messed with our entire democratic process. That is wholly the wrong approach.
The major parties just like to perpetrate this pretence that they are opposing each other when they are really colluding to keep ordinary people down. They want to carry on their silly games of political points scoring. This is a large part of what is so very wrong with the way this city and indeed this country is governed, these big parties focussed far more on themselves than on representing the people they are supposed to.
We should properly debate the issues and agree or disagree but not get engulfed in party politics. The media buys into this too, looking for a provocative headline and highlighting the party politics rather than the issues. It is awful how the big parties and the media want to hijack local elections and even the av referendum by turning it into a shallow national party political ‘fight’ or a popularity contest. Local elections should be about local issues and local candidates not about how popular or unpopular the national government is. The av referendum should be about what system is better for the voter and for democracy, not about voting whether you like Clegg or not or about which system may or may not ‘benefit’ the bnp or any other party come to that. It should be about how to most closely represent the views of the public, their actual views, not what the big parties want their views to be.
AH yes, it’s all very well saying that the BNP are a legitimate political party etc,
and while I would never deny them the right to speak freely, or for it’s members to hold the opinions that many of them do, No matter how repulsive I find many of them,
I am utterly convinced that, should the dark day ever dawn that the BNP ever came to be elected to form a government, They certainly would NOT allow the rest of the population to freely voice their opinions,
How many other “ligitimate political parties” have a leader with a conviction for a racially motivated crime for instance? How many other “ligitimate political parties” have had to have a high court ruling to order them to accept non white members?
OR have a leader who has been quoted as saying,
“we, (the BNP) will not rest until every last one has left our land” Talking about non whites,
OR telling BNP campaigners that they should avoid using terms such as “black or asian Britains” because, “such a person quite simply does not exist”
and who can forget his famous youtube video of his speech to those shinning examples of humanity the KKK,
In which he assures them that the BNP have not ‘sold out’, and that they share the same ideals as the KKK, But have to use more “saleable” words, they can’t use terms like “racial purity” because if they did “they would get nowhere”
“BUT, perhaps one day when we (the BNP) control the British media, the British people will say YES every last one (non white) must go”
So, having heard the above from Griffin’s own mouth, are we now expected to accept lame excuses like, “it was taken out of context” or “that was years ago…. he’s changed”?
i wonder just what excuses will be put forward,
I am getting a little worried here with everyone playing nicely, not the PitsnPots I have come to know and love!:)
Seriously it is nice to see a rational debate without the usualname calling.
Owd Potter are you saying that peoples opinions and views never change because I know that mine certainly have.
In the 80′s I was convinced that Margaret Thatcher was the best thing to happen to this country ever, I now believe that she very nearly destroyed this country.
That is some turn around in opinion!
Possibly because the main culprit is banned from the site?
For clarity.
Craig Pond is banned from the site as he has previously posted comments that were outside of our guidelines.
We have asked both Craig & Lynne if they would like to provide 500 words as election candidates, they declined.
If they had accepted the offer which is open to all candidates regardless of party both Mr & Mrs Pond would have been given the opportunity to respond to comments made about their 500 word campaign post.
I think he was banned because of some of the things he said were untrue and against the law, putting the site at risk of being sued. He was not banned for the outlandish insults he chucked around on a day to day basis. Anyone would think he had nothing better to do, come to think of it, he didn’t. anyway been on the streets a few hours this morning, lots of good lads and lassies in red and white on the chant as they board the transport to the big match……..COME ON THE POTTERS……DO IT FOR US…….. but not many sad looking people making there to Longton to hear what Nick Griffen as to say.
Owd Potter, Nick Griffin is not the party the same as Blair,and Brown.
The policy’s, and the members are the party.
Referring to events of the past is pointless.
I am utterly convinced that, should the dark day ever dawn that the BNP ever came to be elected to form a government, They certainly would NOT allow the rest of the population to freely voice their opinions,
This type of statement is typical of the lefts overblown statements.
Do you seriously believe that the members of the BNP are that backward as to allow this to happen?
A lot of our members are ex-servicemen, and women, do you believe these are racist?
We have stated what our policy’s are in clear terms, but the left insist on distorting them to suit their agenda.
Come on Owd Potter debate policy,s.
Anonymous guest is right, it can and does apply to all three main parties, they lie before the election, as what they do after is different. This has been proven in terms of labour locally – awful liars they are.
On the other hand I can’t think of an example where the bnp have not followed through on election promises. But it is also the case that they have not had a position of power such as on the cabinet, where there is a bit more scope for this.
Terry, at the risk of invoking Godwins law,
How far do you think a certain German corporal would have got in 1920-30s Germany, Had he said from the outset, That, should he and his party come to power they would suspend democracy, crush all opposition, by executing or jailing anyone who spoke out, and go on to be a major cause of WW2 resulting in the deaths of many millions and the almost total destruction of Germany?
“Overblown”? perhaps, But I prefer to be on the side of caution, and anyway, I am quite sure we will never have to find out, as the BNP will never be elected to government,
And ROLAND,
Yes, I believe people can change, but, it’s one HELL of a jump from “We will not rest untill every last one has left our land” and “there is no such thing as a black or Asian British person”
and the many other racist comments, that both Griffin and quite a few of the BNP hierarchy are on record saying, to say nothing of a smattering of criminal convictions amongst them,
To being a ‘respectable’ politician.
I know that we already have enough thieves and liars amongst the mainstream parties, but not many with convictions for crimes of a racial nature,
By all means if you feel that our democracy and freedom would be safe in the hands of the BNP then you vote for them,
I DON’T, and I never will,
However, this is a local election and how many of our local bnp candidates have convictions for crimes of any nature at all in fact, let alone racial?
And how many other candidates mainstream or amongst the various independents (I include CV as an independent group) have criminal convictions? Good grief Lee Wanger does, he had to sign the sex offenders register. Who would want to vote for someone like that. I certainly wouldn’t, though he’s not standing in my ward anyway.
Dont think that any law prevents people who have a crimanel record from running Nicky, so thats not the point. Agree with you on Lee Wanger, what is strange is that knowing what he did, voters still gave him another term in council after, but I hope his time as passed now.
Owd Potter, the reference to the evil corporal is always invoked when any reference to the BNP is mentioned.
Once again, lets debate policy’s, not the fantasy’s of the left.
I support removing criminals, illegals, and terrorists.
I believe in getting out of the corrupt EU.
I believe in capital punishment.
The left have had the reigns for too long and the results are there for all to see.
We import criminals.
Give succour to mass murderers.
Allow terrorists to spout their vile language on our streets.
Murder thousands of innocent civilians and British personal.
All with our Governments permission.
Steal from the public purse while cutting front line services.
Yet all three main party,s can think of is colluding to “keep the BNP out”.
No debate, No democracy.
Warren, the reason Lee Wanger was allowed to perform the duties of a councilor are that he never served six months in prison I was told.
He is standing in Tunstall in this election.
He was also allowed to interact with children even when signing on the sex offenders register.
Of the BNP candidates not one of them has a criminal record.
Something you cannot say about some of the councillors.
No I know the law doesn’t prevent it. The point though was that owd potter mentioned criminal records and then mentioned voting bnp, which came close to implications about the bnp candidates which insofar as I am aware are untrue and Terry says he knows for sure none of our bnp candidates have criminal records.
It seems fairer to vote based on accurate information than smears.
For myself I don’t plan to vote for Phil Sandland, no disrespect to him but I think the two independent candidates will be better for our ward based on what I know of them, their plans for the ward, in the case of one of them a good track record of representing our ward and in the other a welcome newcomer who I think would be good for the ward and represent us well down at the civic centre. So far I have received leaflets from the two independent candidates but not from Phil.
.
Batkin has seen the inside of a police cell.
Melaine Baddeley partner has a record of drug offences, with a pittyfull defence. He nominated her this time round.
Both of these were in the last two years.
Can I add I don’t have a criminal record, I did have a copy of the Birdy Song, but I have hidden it.
Warren that is completely out of line!
You are implying Steve is somehow guilty of something when he is totally innocent and has not committed any crime whatsoever. The fact that he suffered because of someone else’s idiocy is bad enough without you trying to smear him. If that’s the best you can come up with it’s pretty pathetic. If you want to argue against him take issue with what he says instead.
I don’t think you should be blaming Melanie for her partner either. Same applies, argue against what she says if you don’t agree with her.
Your agruments could do with a bit more substance.
You know what Nicky, they would do that to me given half a chance, its a dirty world out there. Batkin was detained, he promissed to explain his actions and did not, spouting the normal ‘They are all out the get the BNP’ rubbish.
As for Baddeley, you bloody well know when the person you live with is smokeing bloody pot, for whatever bloody reason.
Don’t worry about Wanger neather, he’s done for him.
Warren again you are making unjustified accusations, or hinting at them. I do not believe that Steve would ever fabricate anything to put you in a cell. What ‘actions’ are these you are referring to? He explained what happened to the police clearly and eventually they realised he had done nothing wrong. I recall he said something along the lines of the vulnerable position of being a councillor.
Beware Warren. You don’t want to self destruct this late in the day. For your own good, I advise you to spend more time on the streets of Meir South and less time here.
Its so very easy to get into futile rows on the internet that do nothing to help your campaign in the ward. Let me advise you Warren, because I’ve done it myself!
Beware.
I’m on the streets of Meir South a lot Shaun, every day of the week. Leafleting, talking to people, finding out what the problems are outside my RA. They are many, and there seem to have been little done to ease them or prevent them returning when sorted out.
If it pleases Nicky, I’ll retract the statement about Batkin. As for Baddeley, I don’t give in on that one, have you seen the BNPs stance on drug use, and you have the partner of of a BNP council member growing pot for what he states is for ‘medical use.’, with them lot saying “well thats ok then.”
When acusations about a Labour councillor were made on here this site went ballistic.
I don’t expect the same thing here.
Warren as Nicky said you are completly out of order.
Melanie was never implicated in smoking pot, her partner was, and Steve was never charged with anything.
Terry,
[quote=]Melanie was never implicated in smoking pot, her partner was, and Steve was never charged with anything.[/quote]
Warren never said that Melanie was implicated in her partnere use of drugs.
Warren never said that Steve was charged with anything. He said that he had seen the inside of a Police cell and that is true. He was detained then released [without charge] from the Police custody centre at Festival Park.
[quote=]When acusations about a Labour councillor were made on here this site went ballistic.
I don’t expect the same thing here.[/quote]
You don’t have to visit this website, you can always do what you normally do and blow smoke up Craig Ponds backside on the two racist website he writes.
I’m gobsmacked that this site allows you to keep posting on it given how disrespectful you are to it and the people who run it.
Terry,
I have retracted the statement about Batkin. As for the other one, you can’t tell me that she did not know the bloke was skining up and growing the s**t, witch he was found guilty and only just avoided prison for. He was not in such an amount of pain that he could not make it up a set of ladders to tend to the bloody stuff now was he. You lot in the BNP are soon to condemn until comes home to roost on your own heads.