The average house price in Stoke-on-Trent is the lowest in the country according to figures released by the Land Registry at the end of May 2011.
According to the latest figures the average price of a house in the city is £73,733.
This figure shows average price has reduced by 3.8% over the last month and contributes to an annual reduction of 4.7% to date.
Nationally the average house price is £163,083, a rise of 0.8% over the month but a year to date reduction of 1.3%.
Kingston upon Hull used to have the cheapest average house price but a monthly rise of 0.9%, which equates to an average price of £73,825, has lifted them above Stoke-on-Trent.
Wales has the lowest average house prices.
Merthyr Tydfil has an average of just £69,173 and in Blaenau Gwent it is £72,872.
For Stoke-on-Trent’s neighbours, house sellers have better news.
Staffordshire’s average house price is £134,460 whilst in Shropshire it is £164,347.
House sales are in decline across the country. Sales between November 2010 and February 2011 fell to an average of 46,818 units sold per month. The same period last year saw the number of units sold at 54,479.
There was good news for people who owned properties worth over £1million.
There was a rise of 14% for properties sold over the million pound bracket in England and Wales.
Those looking to sell properties at the lower end of the market were also fairing well with a rise of 22% in sales in units worth below £50,000.
The worse effected is the “Ëœsqueezed middle ground’, properties worth between £50,000 and £200,000 all witnessed reductions in the number of units sold of around 5-6%.
Sales of properties worth between £200,000 and £250,000 were the worse effected with a massive reduction of 18% in the number of units sold.
Stoke-on-Trent residents have been quick to criticise the lack of regeneration in the city for the low house prices.
Dan Heath, aged 34, who owns a property in the city said:
“The news that Stoke has the lowest average house price in the country comes as no surprise to me.“I used to live in the centre of Burslem and when you look at areas like Middleport that have been blighted by the council’s bulldozers, it can only have a detrimental effect on house prices in the area”.
Paul Holmes, aged 39, owns a property in Bucknall.
“The area that I live is quite nice but the City has a bad reputation.“There has been no regeneration. We have no decent amenities and the shopping centre in Hanley is less than useless”.
“If my family want to go shopping for the day we go to Trafford Centre or Cheshire Oaks because at least we can finish the day off in a family friendly chain restaurant like Nando’s, Pizza Express, Bella Italia or somewhere like that”.
“Until Stoke has something that attracts people in instead of encouraging them out, the house prices will only go one way – down!”.
Clare Martin, aged 36, lives with her partner Gary in Weston Coyney.
“The council need to start delivering on what they have promised for years.“That East West project in Hanley is essential to Stoke becoming an attractive place to visit.
“We miss out on so much in this city it is untrue.
“The politicians and especially our MPs need to get their fingers out and work together to rebuild the run down areas in the City which do nothing but bring the house prices down.
“It’s no good folk moving here to take advantage of the low house prices when there is nothing to do in your spare time and the council are closing all the decent pools and the city farm.
The 3 memebers of the public quoted sum Stoke-on-Trent up beautifully.
Time for our councillors, MPs’, Council officers to get their fingers out and improve the city.
Only then will the house prices go up and the aspirations of the residents with it!
What we need to do is, as a city, bring in inward investment, we have got to sell Stoke on Trent. We are with in easy reach of both Manchester and Birmingham, we could bring a kind of commuting culture in. We infact have good rail links to both the 2nd and 3rd major citys in the country and real good road links to. But we need to sort services out, we need to offer people what they want in the area they live, that’s good shops, good places to eat, things to do at weekend, health care, parks, play areas, a community pride. We have the ground work for all of these. If people are willing to commute, they will bring the money back into the area, spend it hear, then the people who offer the local services will also prosper, but we need to offer what people want, and at the moment, we seem to be weak on that point. We need to get better shops in Hanley and other town centres, good places to eat and other attractions
One of the major let downs in this is the local public transport. Yep! my good mates at first bus. They do us no fevers at all with the rip off service and frankly outdated ramshackle fleet of dirt bone shaking charabangs that are 15 to 20 years out of date. I mean, its amounting to £2 now, because the drivers give you the lip for wanting 10p change if your traveling from Meir to Longton or anywhere on the ruddy things. If you are thinking about living somewhere, one of the first thinks you want to know is what the public transport is like. Most don’t want to be driveing round hear, there and everywhere on your time off.
Warren have you actually caught bus recently your description does relate to my experience of clean decent bus service. and price wise just over cost of litre petrol and no parking costs are good value esp if going Staffford or leek
I agree that £1.90 for travel to Leek or Stafford is not that bad Ian, but we are not talking that. We are talking people being charged the same amount of cash to travel a mile down the road. First bus need to look at there ticketing, its a damned disgrace. Local public transport needs sorting out if Stoke on Trent is to prosper, and the service is like the busies they use, its 20 years out of date.
Oh! and not having kids I always forget schools. No ones going to come live hear, even with rock bottom house prices, if the schools can not teach there children to a good level.
What are th modern buses you’d like to see stoke busescare sms as those in Chester and York not been on any superior buses anywhere in the country
What are th modern buses you’d like to see stoke busescare sms as those in Chester and York not been on any superior buses anywhere in the country
That Headline should cheer up the folks in Leafy Trentham.
The fur coat and no knickers brigade will all have to move out to Ashley Heath or The Westlands now.
Can’t turn their toffe noses up when they only live in the most expensive area of the cheapest place to live in England.
I can only find one street in the back streets of Rhyl which comes out any cheaper !!!! And thats in Wales !!!! Where all the chavs from Stoke migrate to in the winter.
That Headline should cheer up the folks in Leafy Trentham.
The fur coat and no knickers brigade will all have to move out to Ashley Heath or The Westlands now.
Can’t turn their toffe noses up when they only live in the most expensive area of the cheapest place to live in England.
I can only find one street in the back streets of Rhyl which comes out any cheaper !!!! And thats in Wales !!!! Where all the chavs from Stoke migrate to in the winter.
One of the arguments raised on MyTunstall on the hypothetical post about using the Blue Planet as a Google Data Centre was that you wouldn’t attract people to this area, or to live here. There are many wonderful places in Stoke on Trent to live, and if you are moving from a more upclass area, chances are you’d be able to buy a lot more for your money. The work now for Stoke on Trent and other Staffordshire councils is get the attention of the Blue Chip companies.
Blue Planet – a Google data centre? http://mytunstall.co.uk/11/06/blue-planet-google-data-centre-chatterley-valley
If money was of little object in your plan to relocate, it would be a strange idea to spend it in Stoke.
The plus side of the ST postcode area is that strategically it is a centre of everywhere.
Our road network is really quite good comapred to the mayhem of other areas. The M6 touches Stoke-on-Trent via two access points Jcts 15 & 16 and we have a clear access route along the A50 to the M1.
The A500 must be the best road in the Country.
Taking any of these routes, we can access a variety of International airports within one hour in any direction.
We have two football clubs, one in the Premiership and the other lower down.
But what is the biggest asset we don’t have that would enhance this City into a Manchester and Birmingham?
A Conference centre, an arena or somewhere big acts can and want to perform inside. Well that’s my theory anyway and I’m not wrong.
Has anyone noticed the unused and huge structure running near the Reginal Mitchell road, the one with the odd roof?
What a perfect place for something on this scale.
Easily accessed via the A500 and M6 as well as the A50.
Stoke played in the big League and scored on many fronts which saw the Regent Theatre come alive into the International marketplace and also the Victoria Hall became a bigger name.
Our Council talked it and walked it in those not so far away days, but were battered by all-comers.
Since those days, we had big talking mayors with little and no substance and offering pipe-dreams as a hooker.
To make Stoke BIG and to sell Stoke as a gaing concern, we need to shove forward exactly what we want and consider to be beneficial to our own livelihoods.
As a starter (no chance with this lot in power) we should join up with Newcastle to share the cost of a huge indoor arena pitched on that unused spot near the Reginald Mitchell road.
It has the extra space for all eventualities and then we may see huge events come this way, right in the heart of England.
Big bands and big acts don’t come to Stoke, they only appear here on the way up or on the way down.
Time for change and at little cost to Stoke.
( a small part of the 500 words I didn’t write).
Gary, write down the time and date… I’m in total agreement!
I worked with a stage crew for 23 years on and off. Victoria Hall used to be a must play venue before our council came up with the Cultural Quarter. We were forced to travel all over for work. Very nice to see the bowels of the Albert Hall, Royal Festival Hall, Wembley Arena – but no nipping home to be with your Lady during some boring show.
Geography is definitely on our side. Mancs travel to the NIA and Brummies to the MEN Arena… work it out.
We need a new generation Mike Lloyd.
That’s it, I’ll have to go to the doctors in the morning, I need some more of them tables.
Garry I’m in total agreement with you on that one brother. Its what we are sadly lacking and of-course, I have said this many times hear myself. Its good for a city like Nottingham,Newcastle and Sheffield, its good hear. Its needed and it would fit right in on most tours.
The low prices are a legacy, courtesy of Stoke on Trent’s Regeneration. Included in the land registry data is all the low valuations (not true values) of the Regeneration group for compulsory orders.
Not only did Regen North Staffs give Stoke on Trent many open views of non-regenerated land similar in appearance to the bomb blasted areas of Lybia but also bottom of even more survey tables … lowest house prices in England, biggest deflation of house prices. Thanks to our overpaid and under performing glorious leader (who has had time to act) and his inner circle of expensive time wasters who continually damage this city in every way imaginable, your efforts have gone down in history !
Our house prices are cheap now, they were cheap way back when and they will always be cheap.
The mindset of the current crop is one of cuts to balance the books of someone elses’ mess (their mess in truth).
They talk big stuff.
But please note, it is all for free (hospitals/bsf/grants for this and that).
No pedigree of business sense or foresight and adventure.
A new bus station will see many paper candidates-now councillors-dine out for Months.
Not good enough and by the way, helping starving pensioners is nothing new.
If any councillor comes near me bragging about a new school and a new hospital next to a new bus station, you will never see him again. I will bury him in the pothole he stands next to, which if you think about it, is quite a good service.
I want vision and I want what other have got and I want it delivered.
I say that I could always have offered this and so it is not wrong of me to ask it of othes who got through.
We’ve already seen Dutton come through offering complete tripe and being clueless to actual events and remember, this lot run the show now.
House prices being down is a fair reflection on my home City and it is a wrong catchphrase.
I may ask the wrong questions sometimes (in your eyes, not mine) and I ask for the umpteenth time, how many of our Councilors from Stoke and how many in the Cabinet?
They haven’t got inside them what I’ve got inside me and that’s why we’re screwed.
If only these idiots would VOTE Elsby!
Are they blind? Phwoar! BLIND I tell thee! … they keep me in the dark and feed me pins!
VOTE Elsby X – you know it doesn’t make sense.
There are more houses in Stoke on Trent than people wanting to live in them. Until we either bulldose enough houses or attract enough net new migrants to rebalance the equilibrium, prices will remain low and will continue falling. Simple supply and demand.
Bulldosing seems a terrible waste so we need to attract new residents and to keep the residents that we have here and happy in good employment.
There is a simple solution. The council needs to become much more business friendly. A total change of mindset is needed.
First attract the employer. Then comes the decent jobs that attracts the workers. The workers spend locally. This creates more local jobs. This underpins house prices.
My top 4 ‘Game Changers’ would be:
1. Make parking free in all towns except Hanley for up to 1 hour. Make people get a ticket from the machine however to stop employees blocking up all the best shoppers’ parking spots. Let’s get the high street shops profitable again by attracting passing trade – and not just the charity shops.
2. Create an incentive for new businesses to locate here. Rates holidays, free rubbish collections, council employed red tape busters etc
3. Create a fast track planning permission route for applications that are deemed economically important (ie. applications that will create permanent jobs). Planning turnarounds are currently 8 weeks which is a huge burden on business and adds unneccessary uncertainty. The fast track should be no more than 14 days.
4. Let’s build a regional airport – why not? Building an airport will attract multinational corporations. We must also make sure that the we have one eye on the future and that the airport can be easily extended to international status in the future. Could we not then go on trade missions to India and China and attract inward investment and make Stoke Airport the gateway to the East?
I live in Burslem and commute to Manchester each day, have done for last 3 years! Here’s the problem, £100 Stoke station parking, so I used to go from kidsgrove but now they started charge £50 a month! plus £220 a month train fair it doesn’t stack up! It’s only £140 a month from Crewe to Manchester!
I’m from Stoke-on-Trent so want to stay but why when for £120k I can buy a 3bed in sandbach and get the Crewe train!
Commuters are the key but train companies and council need to gets the costs to compare with other towns and cities!
In terms of regeneration I swear some people just don’t care, St Modwen just sit on land! It’s a disgrace!
£5.96 per hour.
Pension : prefer not to say.
Hours : 40 per week, days.
Job description : “Packers and sorters required for immediate start in Trentham area, you will be sorting plastic bottles and other items for recycling. You must be able to work at a fast pace and stand all day”. My friend pointed out they couldn’t even be bothered to make it up by 4p to £6ph. Fantastic quality jobs Mr Faulkner.
The disgraceful, poverty pay agency involved is Extra Personnel.
4. Let’s build a regional airport – why not? Are you not local Mr Faulkner or not done a simple bit of research into the area first before asking the question ?
The airport we did have is now built on – Meir Park …. now ask yourself why did they build on an airport that you now want ?
Hi Tony,
As a local employer myself it would actually be in my self-interest to keep the local status quo as it is. As long as there are few quality jobs, I do not need to pay much to attract workers.
However, for the good of the area in which I was born, I would rather there be an influx of other employers to the area offering semi-skilled and skilled positions with training. This would would create wage competiton between employers and force wages up.
Low-skilled wage rates (like the recycling job you posted) are relative to the local semi-skilled and skilled pay levels. As skilled and semi-skilled wages rates rise then this also pulls un-skilled rates higher.
It is the same forces of supply and demand that keep our houses the cheapest in the country that also keep our wages low. Wage competiton between employers is what will bring our local rates of pay up to the national average and beyond… and house prices will not then be far behind.
Richard
This comment has been deleted.
Hi Andi,
Yes my grandad was a businessman from Burslem and he looked into turning Meir Aerodrome into a commercial airport many years ago. However, like most forward looking ideas in Stoke on Trent it never took hold.
If someone was to ask me if there was a silver bullet to fix Stoke’s ills? If we could do just one thing only, what would have the greatest impact? I would suggest we build an airport.
The economic spin offs of airports are very well documented. In fact do you recall the Ryanair illegal subsidy case at Charleroi airport in Belgium? The local authorities were essentially paying Ryanair to fly there. They knew that the taxation spin-offs from increased econimic activity would be so great that they could afford to susidise Ryanair.
Rich
Rich
“However, like most forward looking ideas in Stoke on Trent it never took hold.” – how very true.
The council only believe in their own inept ideas and live on a hand to mouth existance from the financial drip feed from Westminster, you only have to look at the cuts and closures.
Yes I agree Stoke would benefit from an airport. The only problem other than the council are the NIMBYs !
I so agree. The council need a change of mindset. There seems to be the idea that businesses are a challenge to be confronted. If, for example, you have ever experienced trying to get planning permission it is like a war of attrition.
My uncle sold up a haulage company in Stoke in the 70′s and moved to Canada. In Canada they realised that his business would generate jobs and taxes for the local area so when he arrived and set up a factory to manufacture curtain sided trailers, the local council turned up and asked if they could do anything to help. They dropped some curbs for him and organised the right sized rubbish bins – simple things really. But this had the effect of making him feel like the authorities appreciated the 80 hour weeks most bosses of growth businesses put in and were on his side.
It is so different here. Businesses get nothing for their rates. Not even a bin collection without paying extra. Town planners and health and safety executives seem focused on being ‘can’t do’ people – full of reasons why something cannot and shouldn’t be done. This is not the attitude that made Stoke great in the 1700′s. Wedgewood and Brindley were the pioneering giants of their day. I dare say that if they existed today they would probably move out of Stoke after being frustrated by the council.
MODELLERS/MOULDERS
Shaws of Darwen manufacture heavy fireclay sinks and bespoke technical ceramics for the renovation, construction, commercial and luxury retail markets across the world. We are also looking for experienced modellers and moulders to produce bespoke plaster models and moulds, who have an eye for detail and an understanding of the properties of the raw materials used.
Job Type:Permanent
Location:Staffordshire
Salary:UndisclosedStart Date:ASAP
Duration:Permanent
Reference:140444-12101616418002
Is work an obligation? I don’t think it was at one time… certainly not service. Working for the benefit of yourself, your family and community are certainly different values than working to make Daily Mail reading shareholders richer.
Pride? Jeezus! Anyone who finds any basis to agree with poor wages is a quisling.
Can you Tory class lot not see why we don’t do it? Oh, no – you invented out-sourcing to third world countries. Thereby inventing the Western Benefit Class. I dunno about you Mike, but these cripple’s got a nerve wanting to be paid the same, eh?
What’s your point Ian?
Should any worthwhile position keep salary “un-disclosed”?
No mention of pension either, which is all the rage nowadays.
Oops! Best get the Horlicks, before Mikefire notices!
With due respect… Wedgewood made us great?
A town with chronic lung diseases, an ill-educated populace with disgraceful life expectancy?
It went dark at tea-time all year round when I was a young child… you’ll be looking to the movers and shakers, not the “herd”, no doubt.
I’m willing to bet you believe the Victorian era was like the lid off a tin of Quality Street.
With due respect, Wedgwood made us great
Hi Tony,
I was in Shanghai in 2010, and there, around tea-time, it went dark. The smog made my eyes water.
You see there is no way to move from sustinence agriculture to a modern society like the UK’s with free health care, free education, roads, libaries and railways etc without two generations of people grunting out the hard work along with the smog and grime.
You and I Tony, no matter how hard done by or poor you feel, are infinitly wealthier that the 200 hundred people that lived in Burslem in 1750. Every person living today is the beneficiary of the infrastructure that was built by our forefathers. We lead very guilded lives comparitively.
This morning I moved 6 steps form bed to use a toilet in an ensuite bathroon. This is an amazing luxury compared to 1750. Parts of the foul system of Stoke on Trent that afforded me this luxury however was probably built around 1750. So the work done 260 years ago is still bringing a benefit to me today – if forms the bedrock of our ‘wealth’.
Josiah Wedgewood was one of the greats. Harvard business school still use him as a case study today on how to create a consumer brand. He is also amongst the first to build houses for his workers and to look after them in their old age.
So I don’t think that the Victorian era was a ‘tin of quality street’ – it was a necessary evil to create the infrastructure and social protection that we now take for granted.
Wedgewood was a ‘mover and shaker’, yes. Movers and Shakers rise the tide. And in a rising tide every boat (the herd) rises with it. Stoke needs a few more Josiah Wedgewoods to create some modern growth businesses in the area again. Let’s hope that the Council naysayers don’t get in the way first.
Rich
I started on minimum wage – what’s wrong with that? I made myself useful, went beyond the call of duty and took a degree at Staffs university at night time.
I now earn may times more than minimum wage. You can have anything you want in life, you just have to give others what they want first.
As a crude rule of thumb a worker can expect 1/3 of the value that he adds for the company he works for as a wage.
So if you want to earn more… add more value at work! simple.
But here’s the rub. You have to add the value first and wait for this to translate into higher pay later. Hence why I wrote earlier “You can have anything you want in life, you just have to give others what they want first.”
If it’s all about what’s in it for you right now… If you turn up a 9.00am on the dot and are queing at the clock-in machine at 4.56pm waiting for a getaway on the dot at 5.00pm… If won’t help you boss with something because it’s ‘not in your job decription’… If you won’t make training and learning part of your unpaid free time… then I’m afraid you just don’t get it and a life on minimum wage awaits you.
What’s your point Ian? How can you model when your hands can’t stop shaking. You didn’t mention what time you have to start work, no mention if there is a “smoking shelter”. Is there a rota for sick days?Would you have to come in every Monday? Sunday is a big night at the vaults.
It is a lot of trouble to ask for any details that are not mentioned, you don’t have this trouble at the “dole” better the devil you know. Purely on a humanitarian basis, being philanthropic, as all have noticed,the above “bottom feeder” prefers to leave ANY jobs for others. Its time this government winkled out the parasites, when you can’t see you have an obligation to your kith and kin, and others you have little expectation for respect, from others. You have no self respect, and in all probability ,Kith and kin have left you to your own devices, Happy Father’s Day, no doubt you will drink to that?
Or John Caudwells. The trouble with a lot of people in the area is they focus on the negatives of these people and totally forget that without them they wouldn’t have jobs in the first place, and the area would be a lot poorer without them.
Point is there are skilled jobs out there for those that want to work.
Honestly, easier to wind up than a clockwork mouse. Mikefire, try to keep kith & kin out of it – I do, for all my well documented faults.
With the all out assault on pensions and welfare going on in this country at present, would it really be so surprising if those at the bottom aren’t minded to be “fair”?
The Tories are itching for industrial unrest… they see history repeating itself. A friendly media will demonise strikers and blame the government’s economic incompetence on them. Ensuring 15 – 20 years of this new dark age.
… they’re forgetting Thatcher (spit) never had to contend with the web.
My hands don’t shake but my tits do – is that just mid 40′s?
Richard, you’re obviously an intelligent man. I have no intention of rubbishing your personal experience…
This rags to riches line is capitalism’s BIG LIE though. How many have ever started as the gatekeeper and ended up company chairman? Seriously bud, more chance of winning the lottery… I believe that’s 14,000,000 to 1.
The sine qua non of global capitalism is that some will eat whilst others serve – there never will be millionaire binmen, because millionaire’s won’t empty bins. I got this as a child.
Aspiration is a lie, a charade. Not just for me (Mikefire) but for billions worldwide.
So don’t bother working then? Drink to forget, drink to remember, or just drink?
You are not likely to own your own business, you are not likely to contribute much to society,but for you the only way is up.”Ask not what**************(little stars again) Aspiration is not a lie, just don’t expect to much from the level you are starting from. Take a (wobbly) step at a time, aspire to sober up,then from the position of sobriety, see how demeaning it is being supported by, in some cases pensioners,and people worse off than yourself,people with dignity, who are prepared to work, even for a pittance,rather than be parasites.
Were we all millionaires, then we would have millionaire “bin men”, you probably wouldn’t be working, even then. It was said that, “Things would not go well in England, until all men have things in equal”. Said long before the labour party was formed. Sounds the sort of thing you would spout. We all know that the balance would not remain for long, soon we would have” the rich”( is it here where you spit)? And the layabouts will find their true level. “Giz a job” not in the vocabulary of some yet?
Not wound up, winding down in preparation for a well earned cruise, after a successful business deal.( not exporting jobs from here,just brains)
So don’t bother working then? Drink to forget, drink to remember, or just drink?
You are not likely to own your own business, you are not likely to contribute much to society,but for you the only way is up.”Ask not what**************(little stars again) Aspiration is not a lie, just don’t expect to much from the level you are starting from. Take a (wobbly) step at a time, aspire to sober up,then from the position of sobriety, see how demeaning it is being supported by, in some cases pensioners,and people worse off than yourself,people with dignity, who are prepared to work, even for a pittance,rather than be parasites.
Were we all millionaires, then we would have millionaire “bin men”, you probably wouldn’t be working, even then. It was said that, “Things would not go well in England, until all men have things in equal”. Said long before the labour party was formed. Sounds the sort of thing you would spout. We all know that the balance would not remain for long, soon we would have” the rich”( is it here where you spit)? And the layabouts will find their true level. “Giz a job” not in the vocabulary of some yet?
Not wound up, winding down in preparation for a well earned cruise, after a successful business deal.( not exporting jobs from here,just brains)
I am getting more than a little weary of the spleenetic rants of Mikefire, whoever he/she is. The of offensive rants directed against Tony Johnson have pushed this increasingly irrevelent blog to new lows. This blog is becoming the home of several people who largely engage in eye popping early hour rants against each other and any person who might want to engage in discussion.
Mike/Tony I did flag two previous bilious attacks by Mikefire and nothing was done. The comments were not removed. I am not sure whether this blog has any part to play in debate about the future of the area. its sad because I have spent time on trying to raise issues such as employment, the economy, green issues and tried to debate matters in a constructive and non offensive way.
Hi Tony,
I’m enjoying trying to sell capitalism to you…
There are 4.7 million businesses in the UK. So there are also 4.7 million ‘chairman’ of their own enterprises.
Out of 23 million private sector jobs this means that 20% of us are self employed business owners.
There are 619,000 millionaires in UK. 89% of these were self made. So there are 551,000 self made millionaires in UK (rags to riches).
The population of the UK is 61.8 million. Therefore 1 in every 112 people in UK are ‘rags to riches’ millionaires… Not 1 in every 14,000,000.
So capitalism’s promise of rags to riches in one lifetime is alive and well.
And while Capitalism is busy making 619,000 millionares… it is also providing jobs, free healthcare, free schooling, roads, railways, running water, sanitation, pensions, social security, defense.
It may not be perfect but no other system has yet been found around the world to deliver the goods successfully over such a long period of time.
It’s a game of saving. Living within your means and investing the surplus in creating products and services for others. It requires patience, delayed gratification, hard work, long days and risk.
If you fail. You fail alone – society does not share the loss. In fact society picks up cheaply the capital equipment that is sold off and other businesses benefit from the skills and experience you gave to your staff.
If you succeed. Society wins too. Your business generates VAT, business rates, payroll taxes and jobs.
It is difficult to see anything that bad about Capitalism in my humble opinion. Work and save to obtain a grub stake and you can play at the table too. A modest stake you are prepared to lose is the only entry requirement – it does not matter what race, age, class, sex you are, if you have a degree, are christian, muslim or Jew.
If you play your cards right you will enrich yourself whilst benefitting society at the same time. Play them wrong and you have to sit out a few hands while you earn and save your next buy-in.
Thanks Rich – no pun intended – I dropped some months ago that I was struggling with a drink problem, it’s increasingly obvious that some feather-weights can’t let that go.
Read your statistics (google is your friend), if my Guevara is ever going to meet your Trump you must have empathy with the unwashed.
Why are interviews like SS interrogations?
Stop holding people’s illnesses, work record or convictions against them. Many people feel so small already, they won’t grow one inch talking to a prospective boss for 15 – 20 minutes.
The ‘boss class’ have the upperhand yet again in the UK – not for the first time in my lifetime. I’d ask them though, if we REALLY are in such dire straits, to give folk the benefit of the doubt. How much potential has been lost? You can’t talk about “career benefit claimants” on one hand, then expect millions to rise with the larks gleefully. A transition is needed.
I’m not hopeful. “We’re all in this together” has been subtley dropped – too blatant a lie, even for the Tories.
Who said don’t bother working, you odious little man? If we don’t bother, rubbish will pile in the streets and the dead will go unburied… might suit some.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
We need to take the empty Big Society slogan off this crass, inept and incredibly stupid Prime Minister. Build local networks along the lines of freecycle and credit unions. Look after each others elderly and young. Not because we should, but because in 2011 Britain we must. A low-paid, low esteem job is not my raison dettre.
“Whatever comes through that gate – we fight together”.
Funny you should say that theyve been advertising for cemetery operative for weeks.
Repossession Hotspots
Stoke may have low prices but it also has a high level of repossessions
.Corby, East Midlands, 155, 7.56
2 Barking and Dagenham, London, 325 6.62
3 Thurrock, UA East of England, 325, 6.16
4 Knowsley, North West, 255, 5.68
5 Newham ,London, 400, 5.57
6 Doncaster, Yorkshire and Humber, 560, 5.44
7 Halton UA, North West, 215, 5.43
8 Tamworth, West Midlands, 135, 5.39
9 Kingston upon Hull, City of UA Yorkshire and Humber, 415, 5.28
10 Rochdale, North West, 355, 5.24
11 Tameside, North West, 390, 5.11
12 Luton UA ,East of England 325 5.07
13 Fenland, East of England, 185, 5.04
14 Salford, North West, 380, 5.04
15 Harlow, East of England, 115, 4.85
16 Nottingham, UA East Midlands, 440, 4.84
17 Stockton-on-Tees UA North East, 320, 4.82
18 Sunderland, North East, 425, 4.81
19 Oldham, North West, 350, 4.79
20 Bradford, Yorkshire and Humber, 800, 4.79
21 Blackburn with Darwen UA, North West, 220, 4.77
22 Wigan, North West, 520, 4.71
23 Sandwell, West Midlands, 415, 4.68
24 County Durham, UA North East, 850, 4.67
25 Middlesbrough, UA North East, 205, 4.65
26 Manchester, North West, 645, 4.63
27 Peterborough UA, East of England ,280, 4.57
28 Lewisham, London ,355 4.57
29 North East Lincolnshire UA, Yorkshire and Humber, 280, 4.55
30 Nuneaton and Bedworth, West Midlands, 205, 4.54
31 Stoke-on-Trent, UA West Midlands, 390, 4.52
32 Pendle, North West, 160, 4.52
33 Blackpool, UA North West, 280, 4.48
34 Bolton, North West, 420 4.48
35 Rotherham, Yorkshire and Humber, 380, 4.43
36 Hartlepool, UA North East, 140, 4.39
37 Liverpool, North West ,655, 4.39
38 Wellingborough, East Midlands, 120, 4.38
39 Gateshead, North East, 285, 4.36
40 Burnley, North West, 150, 4.36
41 Wakefield, Yorkshire and Humber, 485 4.35
42 South Holland, East Midlands, 145, 4.34
43 Croydon, London, 540, 4.33
44 Slough UA, South East, 170, 4.29
45 Darlington UA North East 170 4.27
46 Leicester UA, East Midlands, 385, 4.25
47 North Lincolnshire UA Yorkshire and Humber, 255, 4.23
48 South Tyneside North East, 195, 4.17
49 Walsall West Midlands, 340, 4.17
50 Northampton East Midlands, 315, 4.15
Sorry to hear about the drink problem Tony. I hope you can be its master.
Rich
Maybe low house prices can be seen as an advantage. In a country where millions of young people cannot afford to get on the housing ladder, Stoke could be advertised as a place in which one can really get on with life.
As has been mentioned previously, we are within easy commuting distance of Manchester and Birmingham, and have two excellent universities in Keele and Staffs. We should be doing absolutely everything to market ourselves as a mecca for the young graduate: genuinely affordable housing, excellent nightlife and easy – and green – commuting to work.
Once a class of intelligent, skilled graduates is established, surely the investment in new local jobs and new local shops & amenities will be quick to follow?
I totally agree! Quite why ever higher prices is a good thing and low house prices a bad thing beats me?
Lower house prices means smaller mortgages which means that bankers take less of your take home pay leaving more disposable income.
Ever higher property prices are celebrated by our banks Rich. For some time now they’ve much preferred the safety of bricks and mortar to going out on a limb for our famous British eccentrics.
As much as I hate to pee on anyone’s parade, our low property values are only attracting the buy to let merchants – such a vast pool of Housing Benefit claimants. Sorry, it takes more to attract upwardly mobile young couples.
Ok, so what might an upwardly mobile young couple want – and how can council policy help? Let’s brainstorm some ideas…
COMMUTING // Station parking: free/subsided? annual parking permits? online payments? staggered payments? // Cycling: wide, comprehensive cycle lanes? cycle storage? // Buses: dedicated station shuttle service?
ATMOSPHERE // Co-ordinated late opening shops one night a week? Generous attitude toward licensing? Late-night safety buses? Summer festivals in parks (music, food, motor, engineering, Victorian, childrens?)
SOCIAL // Play to the progressive attitudes (allotments, recycling, city farm?) Municipal sports facilities? Ease accessibility to voluntary projects (big society centre?)
MARKETING // Get these elements right and then sing from the rooftops. Advertise in career/wedding/baby media and explain you understand what young want from life and boast how you’ve busted a gut to provide it at a price they can afford.
Many of these measures don’t actually require a whole lot of money just some creative thinking and energy.
If I could have one thing at a national level it would be LAND VALUE TAXATION to replace income tax. This taxes wealth rather than work, prevents speculators from hording land indefinitely and is impossible to dodge.
A breath of fresh air! All great ideas.
We also need quality schools though. This is a major pull for young parents. Stoke is bottom of the national league tables in education and there’s no quick fix here.
Maybe a £1000 per year voucher towards either a private school or extra tuition to top up the obviously inadequate local state system?
Thanks!
I would think £1000 a year voucher would be unworkable because it would have to be universally available and the cost would therefore be prohibitive. Absolutely Yes to extra-tuition/homework clubs though!
I suspect that statistics would show that graduates tend to have children later in life than non-graduates anyway. I’m concerned with getting book-smart people aged 20 – 30 into Stoke would are putting their career ahead of starting a family.
This section of society has a bit of disposable income to spend and the brains and energy which businesses are looking for.
Sorry to be the despair squid (as ever), but your visionary proposals would cost money.
Where anything is free/subsidised someone’s picking up the tab. Buses don’t run themselves and festivals don’t just happen with a sprinkle of fairy dust. Advertising isn’t cheap either unless you flypost.
C+ for effort, but must try harder.
I never said that they wouldn’t cost money, but they would cost considerably less than new bus stations, new shopping centres and even the REGIONAL AIRPORT that got mentioned earlier in this thread(?!).
Do you have any ideas? Any whatsoever? Now is the time to air them – consider the gauntlet thrown down!
Yeah, the £1000 voucher is totally unworkable on many levels. It would be politically impossible and probably unaffordable. It’s funny though, no one questions transfer payments to attract asylum seekers to the areas yet transfer payments to improve education in order to attract economically valuable parents is distasteful.
Most importantly would be to bring good businesses here first offering quality jobs. The business will then recruit migrants to the area free of charge.
I question exactly how much councils and governments should tinker and socially engineer. The dead hand of Government has a pretty poor track record with these things.
Ooh, you’ve gone aggressive all of a sudden! Pick up your gauntlet and deposit it wherever appropriate for safe keeping.
Just one idea to be getting on with : stop paying Serco, A4E and other such scum thousands per “client” to run mickey mouse schemes which generally serve to lower self-esteem.
Give that money to the victims – sorry, clients instead. Alongside that, let all the properties keenly earmarked for demolition, in this already post apocalyptic shit hole, to unemployed tradesmen and artists. I’m sure you’ll get the concept of free/subsidised rents?
The Great and Good always have and always will screw us at every turn. Who said “give us the tools and we’ll finish the job”?
COME ON MIKE! This new mod’ policy is tiresome!
Oh mate I really haven’t gone aggressive – I included the smiley face for a reason! Your ‘one idea to be getting on with’ is one I have a great deal of sympathy for: I’ve read the The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists & I subscribe to Private Eye. To some extent, I worship Bob Dylan & Morrissey.
But I don’t post on here to push an ideology. I’m afraid, my friend, that capitalism is here to stay; and most of the time I see the consistent increase in world-wide living standards decade after decade and decide it’s probably the best of a bad bunch.
No, the revolution is a long ways off, and I post on here with pragmatism in mind. With that said, do you have any practical ideas on how Stoke can improve itself that could be implemented without the need for heads-on-stakes along the A500?
What do you mean by ‘transfer payments to attract asylum seekers’?
I don’t see that I’m advocating ‘social engineering’ by local/national government in trying to attract young graduates. All I’m saying is let’s use our low house prices to attract graduates to reduce the brain-drain effect which will encourage better businesses with better jobs to the area.
Be very careful in making our current economic ills look like a race issue. Don’t let Goldman Sachs et al off the hook. THEY are fraudsters and when Greece blows up they’ll get theirs.
“Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
And this is why the subject is untouchable because it is always presented as a race issue.
My point is assylum seekers have lower economic value than young parents with marketable skills to the local area. An education voucher (transfer payment) would overcome our local disadvantage of an education that sits bottom of the league tables. However the former transfer payments are much more politically palatable than the latter, yet the latter makes more sense. As ever it is the triumph of idealism over pragmatic realism.
This is my point. It is not about race. Plenty of caucasians are assylum seekers.
Let’s try (many have said it on here) a modest arena… 5,000 would do. Victoria Hall used to be a must play venue.
Ignore the parking/pub/grub revenue that up to 35,000 people per week would bring to the local economy – at least we’d be talked about… as we all know – there’s only one thing worse than being talked about!
How much would that cost? The problem with an arena – and the retail-led regeneration the council are pursuing – is that it assumes and requires the existing population has the money to spare to make it a going concern.
Isn’t the very problem that we’re in the grips of a very severe recession? What is more, global pressures are inflating essentials like food and fuel higher and higher with no real sign that they will become any cheaper in the long term?
I would argue we need to cut the crap vanity projects (shopping centres, airports and arenas) and invest in the fundamentals: education, jobs, housing. Stimulate these with unsexy but pragmatic policy changes and grow from a solid base.
Yep, fair cop. I guess that’s the trouble with the anonymity of internet discussion. You’re half-expecting the person you’re talking with to be a nutter and so you make pre-emptive strikes!
What is the issue with education? I’m still young, so without kids and no experience of the issue. How can comprehensive education fail in several schools in one area, given that it’s all supposed to be the roughly the same?
Will the schools in Stoke be given the same budget as the schools in Birmingham? Or is it the same proportion of a budget which is far smaller?
We are slap-bang between Manchester & Brum. Both cities which manage to support several arenas. Whichever way your Idiot Wind blows, people will want to take in a show… recession… shmecession!
As I said, they won’t just look at the pretty lights. They’ll buy food and booze, pay for parking – might even stay overnight in a local hotel. You’re sounding less smart by the minute!
If this venture is destined to be such a cast-iron success, why wouldn’t an operator move in and make it happen already?
Also, ‘building an arena’ is hardly likely to turn back the clock of decades of local government misdirection. You’re describing a business opportunity, not a change in local government policy.
WRONG!
The NIA and the NEC in Birmingham, the MEN Arena in Manchester were all built with local government funding and co-operation. Such projects also bring returns incredibly quickly.
On a local level, it’s about attracting money currently sloshing about outside Stoke. Elton John?
Here’s me… taking you for an intellectual.
I’m not up on this year’s stat’s but the last time I looked into it out of 174 education authorities in England and Wales – Stoke was 174th in maths and 173rd in English. Don’t quote me but it was something as terrible as that.
What chance does an area have if we cannot even provide the most basic education to the next generation?
And it is not about the size of the budget. Many reports have shown that recent largesse on schooling has not delivered. Shiny new schools are often performing worse then grotty old ones.
It’s more to do with the parenting and aspirations. I have spoken to many primary school teachers for example that tell me that the first few hours of the day are spent feeding some children and washing them. These children are wonderfully well behaved in school and do not want to go home because the school provides normality and structure. Often their home lives are caotic and they come to school unwashed, unfed and unrested. What chance do they have to learn anything? It is a terrible shame.
If you combine Stoke’s employment ills – high adult unemployment, high incidence of benefit culture, high youth unemployment and low opportunity it is easy to see why there is low aspiration amongst the next generation.
Almost half of children in Stoke live in a home where no adult is working. They have no role models.
Social security is absolutely necessary and totally worthwhile. However, as we have now seemed to have proven, if it becomes too complex and too generous it creates perverse incentives. I am afriad that our good intentions as a society may have created a Frankenstein monster. Minimum wage work does not pay compared to some benefits so although we may not like it, who can really blame people for simply behaving in a rational manner and choosing benefits over work?
An obvious low cost ‘easy win’ would be to reform the planning process.
The current system leaves too much power in the hands of officials and nimby’s.
It takes too long and the decisions are too subjective. Investors need predicability to have the confidence to risk their capital here.
Examples of disasterous planning decisions:
Michelin Tyre Co wanted a European head office and were rejected due to Nimbies objecting to the helipad. Result: Michelin have all but abandoned Stoke.
SMART cars and JCB were both turned down in favour of ‘starter units’.
Thomson holidays wanted to create 2000 (yes that 3 zero’s) white colar jobs – planning refused.
A local beauty salon recently wanted to convert upstairs into more treatment rooms doubling the workforce – refused.
However, there is always room for pet projects with European funding – The worlds largest green distribution centre remains empty in Tunstall I notice. The irony of it being one of the most UN-green buildings in the world if it remains empty seems lost on the council. If it remains empty then all that CO2, however little compared to other buildings, has come to nought.
I therefore propose a Fask track (2 week turnaround) planning process for projects deemed economically worthwhile (i.e. creating permanent jobs). Decisions should also be based on a points system so that provided a proposal meets the preset criteria there should be a high probability of it being passed first time.
So to have role models, children must live in a household where someone is working?
Bring on the moderators!
What complete and utter shit you talk!
Saddam Hussein kept down a steady job! Are love and respect mere words to you? Or do they cost 40 hours per week?
The dark, satanic mills are shut – get over it!
Wrong! I’m not an intellectual. I’m not going to try and brow beat you into my way of thinking over the internet, as that’s never going to happen. But if you think an arena is what is needed to turn Stoke around then… words fail me. I’m not saying it couldn’t be successful but, c’mon.
[quote=tonyjohnt] let all the properties keenly earmarked for demolition, in this already post apocalyptic shit hole, to unemployed tradesmen and artists. I’m sure you’ll get the concept of free/subsidised rents?
[/quote]
Yet you mocked my collective squatting motion (still civil offence) show their is a need and a movement in one small street area and improvement that can be made working together, then maybe council/AWM will release other land/property if they have evidence it can me improved and self managed
I didn’t say it was a panacea, you asked me for positive ideas – remember?
Argue with me if you must, I think we pish out of the same side of the bed.
For too long fear!
You could just stop swearing
Where did I swear Budweiser? Is “shit” swearing? You’ll hear worse in a PG movie. As with all censorship mate, you don’t mind people being *****, you just mind them saying it.
No, of course they have role models. Just not one that goes to work. They see their parents trapped in worklessness and benefits become the norm.
Statistics are full of evidence to support this idea.
Sadly, unemployed households beget unemployed children and teenage mothers beget daughters that become teenage mothers themselves. Simple statistics.
A child may well grow up in a house full of love and respect – all I’m saying is – if this household also has no working parents then the child is more likely to himself become long term unemployed. This may be controversial and unpalatable but it is an undeniable statistical fact.
I’d never have guessed… that’s incredibly sad. My gut reaction is that its high time youth work and social work were taken seriously.
“Unwashed, unfed, unrested” – if anyone looking after a child cannot manage to achieve these three things on a regular basis it is surely time for the government to step in.
Taxpayers may not like the extra cost it would undoubtedly take but if it can divert a child’s future from a lifetime of benefits surely it makes as much sense economically as it does morally?
That was exactly the conclusion of the controversial study called ‘The Bell Curve’
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bell-Curve-Intelligence-Structure-Paperbacks/dp/0684824299/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1308768343&sr=1-1
But can the state be trusted to do it any better? I have my doubts.
Sweden have been teaching us a lot recently and I live in hope. In Sweden they had the same dependency trap where work didn’t pay. Recently their new Government has made work pay and it seems to be correcting some of the social ills.
This is worth a read, 9th June in the Economist:
http://www.economist.com/node/18805503?story_id=18805503&fsrc=rss
“Without dumping the generous Swedish social model, the government has tweaked it in the direction of lower taxes and smaller welfare benefits. Mr Borg calls this “reinforcing the work ethic”Â. Mr Reinfeldt talks simply of making work pay.
The results have been spectacular. After long being a case study in jobless growth (except in the bloated public sector), Sweden has become a big creator of private-sector jobs. The government has narrowed the “tax wedge” that deters employment and whittled away at sickness benefits: Sweden no longer stands out for welfare excesses.”
It’s amazing what the right incentives can do.
BOLLOCKS!
Start seeing the (dare I say it) working-class as part of the solution instead of the problem.
For generations we’ve raised our kids on lobby and love – and for generations, you smart-arsed types have tried to tell us where we’re going wrong.
You educated types are supposed to be sorting shit… crack on Rupert!
Your stastistics seem very simple to me Rich… google is our friend… dare point us to any? OR, is it just Daily Hate Mail?
We’re not talking about class. We defined our concern as children who are regularly turning up to school unfed, unwashed or unrested, and so cannot be adequately educated even in English or Maths. Which part of that are you unconcerned by?
This rags to riches isn’t a big lie at all. The idea that it is a big lie is merely another aspect of the class war, comrade!!!
Hmm, Philip Green, Richard Branson, Sir Ken Morrison (Morrison’s), John Caudwell, James Dyson, Sir Paul McCartney, Lord Sugar, Richard Desmond, these people and more by your logic are all a lie? What about footballers? They’re pretty much all from poor working class families. And those are only the people who became very rich.
Aspiration is only a lie for those who can’t be arsed and want others to blame for not succeeding.
[quote=tonyjohnt]Read your statistics (google is your friend), if my Guevara is ever going to meet your Trump you must have empathy with the unwashed.[/quote]
Just what happened to Guevara? I think you’ll find that Guevara had empathy problems with the unwashed. Hence why few people joined his attempted revolution in Bolivia and why he came to a sticky end. If you want a revolutionary role-model might I suggest someone closer to home like John Lilburne? Although personally I’m more partial to Lycurgus (or the 3 basic principles he laid down).
[quote=tonyjohnt]Why are interviews like SS interrogations?[/quote]
?????I’ve yet to see interviewers rip people’s nails out and take blow torches to their abdomen. What on earth have you been applying for?
[quote=tonyjohnt]Stop holding people’s illnesses, work record or convictions against them. Many people feel so small already, they won’t grow one inch talking to a prospective boss for 15 – 20 minutes. [/quote]
Think about that logically please. Sick record, is the potential employee going to end being paid for non-productive time? Work record, is this person going to carry out their duties diligently or fart about? Convictions, OFFS, where do you even begin? Are they likely to hit someone at work, help themselves to the till, or sell contraband in the workplace? All three are detrimental to the profitability of a business.
[quote=tonyjohnt]The ‘boss class’ have the upperhand yet again in the UK – not for the first time in my lifetime. I’d ask them though, if we REALLY are in such dire straits, to give folk the benefit of the doubt. How much potential has been lost? You can’t talk about “career benefit claimants” on one hand, then expect millions to rise with the larks gleefully. A transition is needed. [/quote]
Er, just what have people been doing since the dawn of civilisation? The ‘boss class’? Absolute monarchy and the feudal system died out decades ago, even in nothern Scotland where it lingered a little longer than the rest of the UK. Are people born bosses are do most get promoted into that position. The boss class is a myth, most managers in large companies come off the floor and many business people start from scratch.
[quote=tonyjohnt]I’m not hopeful. “We’re all in this together” has been subtley dropped – too blatant a lie, even for the Tories.[/quote]
One things for sure, there’s no saviour on a white charger to wave a magic wand to make everything wonderful. The furthest “Come The Revolution” will get in the UK is ‘Citizen Smith’!! If you want your f***** liberty, a few friends and boat over the Delaware (or Trent & Mersey) is a start!!
We had Pondo and his “race war”, now we have the “class war”.
“May you never lay your head down, without a hand to hold” – oops, forgot musicians are allowed the vices that mark us other mortals out.
Success is making money? I see now, where I’ve been going wrong!
[quote=tonyjohnt]Success is making money? I see now, where I’ve been going wrong![/quote]
Don’t think anyone said it was, merely debunking your idea that rags to riches is a lie. Success is judgemental. For some it may well be money, others probably have other benchmarks.
My word Mr Perry, you put some effort into that post!
My sig’ was a knod to Catherine Tate and a kick-back at PnP’s new moderation policy.
As for class war… are you havin’ a laugh? Those at the bottom have been demonised in a way we haven’t seen in this country since the 80′s. The way the public have swallowed the crap fed by this Cabinet of millionaires is nauseating. The Dickensian notion of the ‘deserving’ and ‘un-deserving’ poor is back with a vengeance. A time-traveller from the 19th century would notice a leap in comparative wealth (white goods, electronics etc) but would see little change in attitudes in 2011 Britain.
How are those who can’t look after their health, children, finances to be included? Bullied or cajoled? Can they be processed into ‘sensible’ people overnight?
I don’t trust this Tory Coalition to provide the answer – with their broad brush approach to everything.
Please don’t delete this nimrod’s comments in future… ever heard of giving them enough rope?
Sat and read it with my girl on the lap-top, she almost wet herself when this knob ranted about my relationships with my family… never can tell Mike!